True, but it affects everyone else too.

Well when people disagree in ways of the pre-order, then the gentleman way is to vote with their wallet instead of bashing people how they should use their hard earn money.

If not putting money down is not enough to sway the vote, then maybe putting money into kickstarter and asking the creators not to do pre-order will give a better sway?

Personaly I think TB pick the wrong fight against the whole of pre-order culture.

If he campaign against pre-ordering from publisher that had a lousy track record, charge exorbit prices with their many GAME CHANGING DLC, make ridiculous pre-order bonus like a Hard mode, then that's logical.

If he use a blanket statement that pre-order are bad and those that support are suckers...... well at least for me I see it as a cheap love letter to reward the creators for their past work.

It's like saying the whole of German people are bad because Hitler is German.

Or perhaps not. But the main fact is that pre-ordering doesn't give you anything, you're just saying you're OK with stuff getting taken out of the game for most people, with buying before reviews or port reports are out, without knowing what the performance is like, etc.

Like I said before, I'd do it as a statement, to show my "support", but I don't think it's a good thing to do ultimately, because it tells CDPR that advertising bogus free DLC is fine and buying a game that will stutter at launch doesn't bother me.

There are a lot of people pre-ordering a game for a little discount then waiting weeks or months to play the game after it's been properly patched, while it's sold at a bigger discount then.

Read my previous post

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If he campaign against pre-ordering from publisher that had a lousy track record, charge exorbit prices with their many GAME CHANGING DLC, make ridiculous pre-order bonus like a Hard mode, then that's logical.

If he use a blanket statement that pre-order are bad and those that support are suckers...... well at least for me I see it as a cheap love letter to reward the creators for their past work.
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Why on earth would you even open a topic about harm of preorders on public discussion boards with the goal of saying you refuse to discuss it?

No, the gentleman way is to discuss the issue. Point me to where I've attacked someone or bashed anyone for doing anything. The entire topic went in a very civilized and calm manner. In retrospect, I have given P1na a bit of a loaded question, but that really wasn't purposeful, I've realized this the next day I have posted the ... well, post. And that's about it. However, the fact that you guys get so offended on this discussion says to me that, perhaps, we're making you think on the issue, and chances are you'll eventually turn around. Sure, you might respond with something like 'I will preorder now, just to spite you!' but, well... I take long-term effects over short-term anger ;-)

*sigh*

And no, the argumentation isn't against publisher with lousy track record, the argumentation is that preorders offer absolutely no advantage to a consumer. There are many far more reasonable ways of supporting your favourite company which do not add to an exploitative culture, because the publishers with lousy track records see the preorder numbers of publishers without lousy track records.

Lol, i don't care what players waste their money on, i didn't even mentioned them in my post, my question is why would a publisher ask for a full retail price when it's actually "half" of a game (and aggravated with the dlc they propose).

As for the dlc's, i don't have a problem with it, i also buy them (and most of them are mentioned in the second link that you gave), i don't buy (and i don't care who buys them) those overexpensive characters/weapon/maps dlc's because i don't feel it's worth my money.
If i really want to play that game but i don't want to support the company practices i can just wait for the cheap goty/complete/whatever editions with all the dlc's.

I personally just don't see the value of pre-ordering, be it digital or physical.

I always normally wait for a bit so that reviews to come out, watch some let's plays on youtube or if I know someone who has the game I'll try it out to make sure it's something I want to buy.

Is it just me or is there less and less demos available now a days? Back in the day there were always demos, now, not so much.

Oh, I was replying to Anne Frank's book. Totally missed your post. Sorry about that.

You realize that I am not even replying to you on this right? When did I ever say you attack someone?

The same can be said for kickstarter, it is even more detriment to the customers than preorder, so it should be bash to the ground?

Look, there are 2 groups of people who pre-order. One group that will pre-order no matter what and another group will pre-order to reward the company past merits but will stop if the company burns them.

If you take out the first group lousy publisher find their pre-order sales much lower then good publisher, hence they can hardly exploit.

If you take out the second group, lousy publisher will be happy to exploit left and right because they can get away with it.

So I don't see how the second group really entice exploitation, the first group should be the focus of your advices no?

If you don't like godwin law then how about another example.

Because some pastors molest little boys, so the entire Christianity must be rotten.

Or because Mother Teresa is a great nun, the who of Christianity must be good and everyone should convert to Christian.

Yes there are other ways to support your favorite company, yes pre-order offers no advantage to the customer. Yet I am lazy and just want to use the easy way out to reward good companies.
What? Buy their games on release 3 months later? Well I am lazy and have enough things on my to do list than adding a couple more buy this game at this date, buy that game at that date.
What? The game turn out to be lousy? Well this pre-order is my last gift for your past merits, see ya when you earn back your reputation.

You are right on the demos. There are virtually no demos released anymore which is probably cause we have youtube videos that show the gameplay and also twitch streams with gameplay so the devs aren't really prepared to make demos anymore.

or more correctly - all Germans are bad because Hitler was Austrian?

Another pitfall, announce pre-order a year ahead of release, have pre-orders cancelled due to systems not being able to run the game :-P but atleast GOG are nice and offer to refund it. More than can be said form many companies

We are getting demos actually its just that now we have to pay for them and most people have no problem with that either.

Ha a good one. I will try again.

It's like saying the whole of Austrian people are bad because Hitler is Austrian born

Yeah, you can call it a demo cause of the game length but 1 hour of gameplay and 19.99€ that is crazy. But seriously real demos are very rare nowadays.