I like TB but the pre order stuff? dont necessarily agree. If the pre order comes with some form of discount, extra goodies (hell even exclusives) *if* its a dev i can trust to deliver, then why not?.

Your right,they used to give out small items.
Nowadays they just wan't the money coming in as fast as possible,as long as they have a working game to sell.It doesn't matter how many patches they have to put out to customers,because the customers has told them their problems and actually saved the Devs a lot of work time that they would of and should of done themselves.This will not change because most people don't care or even realise what a con it is..

Because trusting a dev is besides the point. By preordering anything from anyone, you're supporting the preorder culture in general - the dev you're supporting is not the only one seeing the preorder numbers of his game, and the issue is that all those bonuses, discounts and stuff you're getting? All of that is artificial. All of it exists only to persuade a customer into a deal which is inherently bad for him and inherently good for the retailer. There's no limited stock, you wouldn't be getting anything without this bullshit artificial policy. The sole reason for digital preorders to exist is to sell a product which you can't possibly have enough information on. That's pretty much the definition of anti-consumer behaviour.

Yeah but the average customer isnt going to know all that. All that they will see if " AHhh all these freebies/great discount" many will just gobble it up. Thats the point though - to get all those presales - see the demand for the game etc. Why is it bad for the customer?. They *perceive* they are getting a very good deal. If they are happy with it, why not offer it?.

If consumers perceive that Steam's DRM is a good thing because it offers good online connectivity, achievements and stuff, why is it bad for them? They don't know that's actually not part of DRM and it can work without it, surely, if they are happy, why not keep all your games as Steam exclusive and DRMed?

Seriously, all that preorder goodies? It would exist anyway. Regardless of whether or not preorders exist. In other words, you'd probably get all that shit for free with regular purchase without this terrible habit we're getting into here. That people are traditionally idiots doesn't change the fact it's bad for them.

Its all about marketing & perception.

If you know for a fact you're going to play a game on release, I see no reason not to preorder and get a 10% discount. I normally would check reviews before buying, but if you're going to be buying anyway, why not.

From my experience most the pre-order stuff will make it into the game for everyone after a while or is available as DLC after release.

Especially in the [MMO]RPG genre many people want to have the most individual character possible. A special gear or name tag (title) in the game is a nice thing to have and hopefully not everyone will get it (for example several unique cosmetic items in Neverwinter).

I pre-order nearly every game I want to check out and never thought about harming other players experience. After all, it is up to the developers or publishers to look after their reputation and sales.

Well as long as you don't care about the inherently terrible effects of digital preorders, sure, the 10% discount is worth it. Nonetheless, if you want a discount, you can get much better deals than that. If you want to support a company, you can give them 10% extra money on release. There's just ... Nothing worthwhile about preorders. I suppose there's use if you don't want to manage your money and just want them spent straight away, but that's not really a particularily good reason to support a culture which leads towards giving exclusive content to players who choose to preorder and is specifically designed to lead towards reckless purchase decisions and to abuse consumers who have psychological issues with flash purchasing. (is it what it's called? I don't think that's what its called.)

Electronic "limited editions" and "exclusives" are rarely just that though. Both these things can be bought as DLC/Goty later on.

I do however agree, that if the game is very much what i know i want and there is real discount, then it isnt necessarily bad deal. Ofcourse, most of times i just wait till next year and buy it at fraction of the price - but that is really besides the point. Every now and then you want something when it launches and i see nothing wrong about that.

oh, the 100€+ "deals" are just mindblowing :s

I guess I don't care about the inherently terrible effects of digital preorders, no. Or rather, I don't consider them so terrible. As in, if idiots want to keep throwing money at Ubisoft for doing terrible games, that's certainly a pity, but it's their money. I wish they spent that money buying Deus Ex copies, but I can't have the world go my way. We'll keep having terrible games, which I will not be buying; and we'll keep having good games, which I will buy.

As for the exclusive content... I honestly don't give a crap. It's fluff anyway, and it will typically later on be available on the GOTY edition anyway that I might be buying.

It's a marketing trick that usually works with "weaker" consumers ( elderly people, addicts, children); Inflate a theoretical value and slah the price to what appears as a "bargain". That worked for selling enclyclopedias, that worked for vacuum cleaners or for collector editions of comics strips ( with a "collector cover", but twice the price) and a lot of other things. And, as many gamers behave like sheep, that works to. And will work until the market for preorder is saturated

Yeah, the model is just extremely exploitative, I suppose that's why I'm far more opposed to digital preorders than I've ever been to DRM.

obviously, such as this too: everytime i read such bullshit i feel like throwing up

yeah it would be a waste to pre order these days , there would certainly be a complete edition or goty edition within a few months that would be more worth it