P1na: Even though my Spanish is a little rusty, it's a surprise that I even forgot the meaning of "Sí". Because apparently that's what 80% of the votes of 2014 said, and you claim they voted NO.

gamesfreak64: ??? i tried to reply but the spinning icon kept on spinning again...
anyway my reply is not processd and i dont have a copy :D so i am surprised this reply got throuhg cause it kept spinning

Ghildrean: Forget what I said then, I didn't check my facts correctly before writting.

Ghildrean: Forget what I said then, I didn't check my facts correctly before writting.

PainOfSalvation: True that 81% voted yes but only 35% of people voted back then in 2014. Most of voters who were for independence went to vote while majority didn't even bother since it was illegal.

Regarding this referendum, there have been a lot of irregularities. Like the same people voting many times or even kids voting, hah! So the 42% that voted is not the actual number but less.

http://www.antena3.com/programas/espejo-publico/noticias/sobre-las-irregularidades-en-la-votacion-queria-demostrar-que-el-sistema-no-funcionaba_2017100259d1f6fa0cf213697994d959.html

murcielago: A good article about this:

Dónde está la desproporción

And here is an acceptable english translation of the tittle and first lines (with minor corrections) from Google Translator:

"Where is the disproportion?
The public opinion must assume with democratic maturity how the State works, any State, against the disobedience of the laws

It is inconceivable that it could be described as an "error" or "awkwardness" that the law enforcement authorities were responsible for executing the judicial decision of impediment of the "referendum" to fulfill precisely its purpose. What's the mistake? Using force? Listen, an anti-riot is not a philosopher of the word that addresses his task by the deliberative method of dissuading with arguments who with his criminal behavior illegally seizes public premises. The force of order intervenes when the delinquent, persistent in his behavior, has already disregarded the deliberative phase, which has just concluded with a judicial resolution that has been neglected: that is why only the recourse of force remains. Because law is nothing more than force: it is the rule that determines who in a conflict can use force and how much. [...]"

You can read more information from spanish media in english here:

"El País" in english

htown1980: 1. Giving an opinion is not interfering.

MajicMan: You may want to tell that to all the asshats in the USA who, after 11 months of investing with zero evidence, believe the Russians colluded and interfered with our elections.

Hillary spent a $1 billion on the election, but yeah the $150,000 Russian trolls spent on Facebook cost Hillary the election (she just needs go away and die already). Even funnier when the majority of that money went to a fake BLM page and to pro-hillary pages.

So what about all the other foreign leaders that publicly backed Clinton and spoke out against Trump? Was that collusion, too?

Collusion is what Obama did in Israel to prevent Benjamin Netanyahu from winning his election or Obama making threats against the UK saying they would go to "the back of the line" on trade if they voted against what he wanted. That's outright threatening voters of a foreign nation and trying to coerce a free people into voting a certain way with threats of economic and political recourse.

Ghildrean: Catalans did a non-binding vote in 2014, and even then it was illegal but the goverment did not interfere, and they voted YES. They have been trying to negotiate with the Spanish goverment since then, but both sides have not made any progress (the Spanish goverment because they didn't want to, and the others because they wanted to do it fast). After a while, the Catalonian parlament has decided they want no more of this bullshit, they broke every democratic procedure at the start of September to force, without any consent, this voting process and declaring it will be a binding vote.

Basically, they wanted people to vote no matter what, and since Europe also told them that it was illegal, they resorted to do the opposite, show how bad the Spanish goverment was to the world. The results of the voting process don't matter (well, the Catalonian president has declared that they will start the independence process even if only 42% of the poblation voted and 90% of that percentage voted YES), the important thing is how violent, repressive and dictatorial the Spanish goverment is. Hell, a lot of people voted MULTIPLE times since there was no way of verifying who already voted and some of the ballot boxes were already filled before the start of the voting process.

EDIT: As it has been pointed out later, the results of 2014 were an outstanding 80% yes for independence. I stand corrected and half of the message was meaningless. I have modified the message, although I should delete it entirely.

htown1980: Do you know why the referendum is illegal? It is illegal because the Spanish Constitution states that Spain cannot be broken up. So under the Spanish Constitution it would never be legal for any part of Spain to leave. Does that seem right that a part of a country cannot, in any circumstances whatsoever, declare independence?

I personally believe that distinct regions should have the right to self-govern, particularly regions where their role in the part of other countries is historically quite new.

If there are concerns with the voting process, those can be dealt with, for example by having international independent observers come in, but it is not a reason to say that there cannot be a vote in any circumstances whatsoever.

Ghildrean: And I will stop posting about this before saying anything stupid again.

Ghildrean: They can vote, if the parties actually wanted to negotiate. The problem here is that, right now, the Spanish goverment is formed by a conservative party (PP) with a president that has decided it is better to "leave things solve itself" and have a majority of the Senate (so they can vote out anything that comes from the Congress they don't like). Besides that, the liberal parties (PSOE and Podemos) are continually fighting between them (they could have formed a coallition goverment in the last general election if they decided to stop wanting all for themselves).

So basically, right now the Congress is formed by a lot of parties fighting for doing things their only and personal way. It's a shitty goverment right now.

And I will stop posting about this before saying anything stupid again.

MajicMan: Nonsense?
Is there anything more fundamentally important than Freedom, Independence and Liberty?
...
Freedom, Independence and Liberty is never easy, always messy, but never nonsense.