So General Franco is alive after all....

I just don't recognize this world anymore.

"Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of man, that state is obsolete" - Rod Serling, "The Twilight Zone"

By the way, just to add a touch of humour to all this, this is one of two cruise ships that's been accomodating hundreds of Spanish policemen in Barcelona's harbor in preparation for today. I kid you not.

It was nicknamed Tweety's cruise ship and it's been the laughingstock in Spain's social media since last week. xD

Of course! However most of the news are only in Spanish:

This one is in English

And this one in Spanish

And this is a video where you can see how the people are throwing stones to the police: https://twitter.com/interiorgob/status/914457752528916480

Nothing justifies violence, on both sides of this conflict. And I don't think we are going to see a clear response from the EU, because there are a lot of countries with independence issues (like France for example). Also, we must not forget that if Catalonia wins its independence, they are going to claim a lot of regions that they said they are part of them because historical reasons (but in the end it's because they need to be bigger to have economic power). They also want Valencia (where I live), Balearic Islands (you know, Ibiza, Magaluf...), a small region of France and another one in Italy (a small sector of nationalist claim Leonardo Da Vinci was from Catalonia, and so it was the Mona Lisa). So if Catalonia wins, it's going to be a pain in the a** for Spain and for Europe.

Is this democracy? If it's a democracy shouldn't everybody in Spain get a vote? Why do only certain parts of Spain and only certain Spanish voters get to vote on the future of Spain if this is a democracy?

Is this succession? Yup, most definitely.

Is that right or wrong? That depends on whose side you are on. Both sides view the other as wrong and themselves as right.

When the 13 British colonies decided to leave the British Empire it was succession and worked out very well for the USA. Of course, when the southern states tried succession from the USA to form their own government again, Abe Lincoln was as impressed as the old King of England was the first time it went down. The second time, the States lost and remained in a Union they voted to leave.

The best example of European democratic values, truly.

Oh my, what a bunch of idiots. They are so dim-witted that they cannot see this kind of behavior works completely against the cause they say to defend. So sad. :(


Just to clarify, this didn't happen today but on the 20th of September, after many people (members of the Catalan government included) were arrested. And incidentally, as far as I know, no one was injured nor did the Spanish forces charge against the population that day.


Oh no, we've got our hands full enough with our struggle. If you people want to join us, you've got to do it by yourselves! :P


What? Never heard about this... Aren't you perhaps mixing him up with Christopher Columbus?

Most empires go a few hundred years before civil war. We barely made it 50. :P
We're on the verge of it again.

What history books are you reading? XD

This is America. We're always at war. We have hot ones and cold ones. We like civil wars, too - and not just our own!

The "Splendid Little War" with Spain to free Cuba (That really worked out as Cuba has just been a bastion and beacon of Freedom for the past half century). The Korean War - ha! that is still going on, no peace treaty has been signed and it really may flare up again in the next 12 months. Vietnam, yeah we were there, too. The Republic of China vs The Peoples Republic of China. Chile, Nicaragua, Panama, Yugoslavia - we're there, baby!

The irony of people getting pissed at President Trump and calling him an "isolationist" when he says he's not interested in nation building or using US resources or people to fight other wars and wants NATO members to pony up and pull their weight, but then turn and say he is a "Madman" who wants war.

Europe is splitting on all seams and this presentation of how much democracy is actually in it just shows why.

"Democracy" means being able to choose between "friendly" fascism and naked fascism.

Of course the courts have ruled it illegal. Have you looked at the history of the world? Very rarely do those in power say that it is ok to have a referendum about part of the country leaving the rest of the country. Seriously. How can you not know that?

The constitutional court effectively held that it would be unconstitutional for Catalonia to become independent without the rest of the country's agreement. Effectively finding that the people of Catalonia have no right to self determination. In those circumstances, what choice do the Catalonians have?

Why is the government so worried about there being a vote? If the majority of Catalonians want to leave, why shouldn't they be permitted to leave? if the majority want to stay, why shouldn't they stay?

What are you scared of?

This keeps getting better. You really couldn't make shit like this up.

Maybe Warner Brothers is going to sue the Spanish police for bad publicity. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sounds all pretty idiotic tbh. I hope there won't be any real bloodshed, would be bad if someone got killed over this nonsense.

Nonsense?

Is there anything more fundamentally important than Freedom, Independence and Liberty?

I'm not taking any sides here as both sides have valid issues and ideas with each other, but this is about self rule. Should Catalonia be a new independent state from Spain? It already has special autonomy powers other regions of Spain do not. Do all the citizens of Spain not have a say in what may happen to their current country?

Freedom, Independence and Liberty is never easy, always messy, but never nonsense.