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htown1980: I guess I'm not backing this project.

DRM free is essential for me. "we're looking into it" doesn't cut it (for me). They have clearly put a lot of though into the game, I don't understand how they didn't consider a DRM free version (unless they did and then decided against it).

By the time they get around to confirming whether it is DRM free, I am guessing all the $20 games will be sold out. I know it's only $5 but something about that doesn't sit right with me.

I'm also not particularly enamored with the whole 25,000 games @ $20, then $25 after that combined with no linux support until $2.2 mill. I'm sure they will get there but just doesn't seem fair that linux users who want to wait to make sure they are getting a playable game will have to be $5 more.

Oh well, I have a huge back log anyway, hopefully it will be a great game and everyone will enjoy it and maybe I will pick it up post-release.
You know you can pledge the 20 bucks and then back out before the deadline expires, right? So you have until Oct 16 to pull your pledge out if you don't like what you see.
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Coelocanth: Cool article on Forbes regarding this particular kickstarter project as well as DRM, kickstarters in general, and a possible indicator of the future of the gaming industry.
Somebody tell Forbes that their default text size and page layout are atrocious.

Top bar, left side bar, left side pictures, bottom bar, right side links, right side pictures. LOL virtually unreadable. Barely any actual story text on screen.

Who designs this crap? Forbes website looks optimized for a 90 year old.
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mondo84: Somebody tell Forbes that their default text size and page layout are atrocious.

Top bar, left side bar, left side pictures, bottom bar, right side links, right side pictures. LOL virtually unreadable. Barely any actual story text on screen.

Who designs this crap? Forbes website looks optimized for a 90 year old.
Page doesn't seem that bad to me. But I have AdblockPlus and NoScript installed, so maybe that's the difference?
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mondo84: Somebody tell Forbes that their default text size and page layout are atrocious.

Top bar, left side bar, left side pictures, bottom bar, right side links, right side pictures. LOL virtually unreadable. Barely any actual story text on screen.

Who designs this crap? Forbes website looks optimized for a 90 year old.
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Coelocanth: Page doesn't seem that bad to me. But I have AdblockPlus and NoScript installed, so maybe that's the difference?
I also have AdBlock. Here's a screenshot of the default zoom. Horrid. And my 1366x768 resolution isn't the culprit. Just an awful, cluttered site design.

But that's just a side note. Good article (the text, anyway).
Attachments:
forbes.png (343 Kb)
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Coelocanth: You know you can pledge the 20 bucks and then back out before the deadline expires, right? So you have until Oct 16 to pull your pledge out if you don't like what you see.
I know I can do that, I can't quite put my finger on why I don't want to. Maybe its a moral dilemma. I guess I don't like the idea of backing the project and then pulling out, doesn't seem right to me for some reason. I guess I also don't want to support a project that isn't clearly DRM free, etc.

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mondo84: I somewhat feel the same as you. I threw in $20 for not but I'm not sure if I'll stay in. I want to see what kind of updates they present to us. If I'm not satisfied, I'll withdraw. It's not like the game won't be discounted a few months after release anyway.

At this point I feel Obsidian has provided very little info yet have benefited largely from the reputation of the involved game designers. And for kickstarter in general, I'm starting to think that stretch goals are a joke. Project creators, especially Obsidian, have a decent gauge on how well they'll fare, what kind of demand is out there from fans and press, etc.

They knew they'd be a hit, and I doubt the stretch goals were conceived only in the last 24 hours. I'm not saying it's wrong to plan this way. Just an observation.
Yeah, the stretch goals are weird. I can't believe that they didn't at least consider what would happen if they reached the goal and the "new playable race, class companion" stuff just seems to be things that should have been in the game in the first place. At least they will almost certainly get linux and mac support, those seem to be real stretch goals.
Post edited September 16, 2012 by htown1980
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htown1980: Yeah, the stretch goals are weird. I can't believe that they didn't at least consider what would happen if they reached the goal and the "new playable race, class companion" stuff just seems to be things that should have been in the game in the first place. At least they will almost certainly get linux and mac support, those seem to be real stretch goals.
Exactly. The kickstarter page might say $1.1 million, but the real goal is probably somewhere around $2.5-3 million. Just entice people with "added content" that would otherwise be essential to the core game. And I realize that people are making games without publisher support, so financially they do have to assess what's absolutely necessary and what's optional, but we all know that many of the stretch goals are pretty much essential to making a complete game.
The idea of owning a house was interesting though, content wise. The rest seemed like filler.
The problem with all these fundraisers is that there is no clear picture of the final product, even games like Grim Dawn that are in alpha don't have them.

They should have a list of features from the start, like:
50+ sidequests
6 playable races
100 prerendered maps
20 classes and so on...

Without these there's no clear picture what we are getting in the first place and how much they are adding. Only features that have any meaning are features like DRM free, Linux or Mac.
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DodoGeo: The problem with all these fundraisers is that there is no clear picture of the final product, even games like Grim Dawn that are in alpha don't have them.

They should have a list of features from the start, like:
50+ sidequests
6 playable races
100 prerendered maps
20 classes and so on...

Without these there's no clear picture what we are getting in the first place and how much they are adding. Only features that have any meaning are features like DRM free, Linux or Mac.
Broken Sword has a very clear picture of what their product is. ;)

www.kickstarter.com/projects/165500047/broken-sword-the-serpents-curse-adventure
Post edited September 16, 2012 by mondo84
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DodoGeo: The problem with all these fundraisers is that there is no clear picture of the final product, even games like Grim Dawn that are in alpha don't have them.

They should have a list of features from the start, like:
50+ sidequests
6 playable races
100 prerendered maps
20 classes and so on...

Without these there's no clear picture what we are getting in the first place and how much they are adding. Only features that have any meaning are features like DRM free, Linux or Mac.
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mondo84: Broken Sword has a very clear picture of what their product is. ;)

www.kickstarter.com/projects/165500047/broken-sword-the-serpents-curse-adventure
The stretch goals aren't that much better, but that doesn't matter that much in adventure games that have a set storyline (script) with not too much room for expanding.

RPG games are all about the quantity (quality of course also ) of quests, NPCs, playable races, classes. So having some concrete numbers would really help make some sense of those stretch goals.
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htown1980: Yeah, the stretch goals are weird. I can't believe that they didn't at least consider what would happen if they reached the goal and the "new playable race, class companion" stuff just seems to be things that should have been in the game in the first place. At least they will almost certainly get linux and mac support, those seem to be real stretch goals.
Yeah, I was thinking they are saying this to each other: "Guess what guys? We get some major Christmas bonuses this year!" ;-P
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mondo84: Broken Sword has a very clear picture of what their product is. ;)

www.kickstarter.com/projects/165500047/broken-sword-the-serpents-curse-adventure
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DodoGeo: The stretch goals aren't that much better, but that doesn't matter that much in adventure games that have a set storyline (script) with not too much room for expanding.

RPG games are all about the quantity (quality of course also ) of quests, NPCs, playable races, classes. So having some concrete numbers would really help make some sense of those stretch goals.
But you can see 6 months of progress on Broken Sword realized with gameplay video, animations, etc. They've shown quite a bit of work and have been more or less transparent.

I don't know how much work Obsidian has done so far, but it seems like they might not even be in a position to specify or quantify stretch goals like you mentioned.

I like projects that show up front what the plan is, what work has been done, etc. I could invite some backlash with this comment, but Obsidian seems to be saying, "Look at us, we made some awesome RPGs. Give us money, then we'll make another one." Now, most kickstarters are asking for money in the same manner, but different projects show a lot more work, planning, details, designs, etc. up front.

I think Obsidian is playing their cards close to their chest. The main three guys have a great track record and they can bank on that. Question is, how much have they actually done?
Post edited September 16, 2012 by mondo84
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mondo84: I think Obsidian is playing their cards close to their chest. The main three guys have a great track record and they can bank on that. Question is, how much have they actually done?
They made a map and they replayed Baldur's Gate together, and said sweeeet together at the same time. This I think is obvious. :D Oh and did I mention the notes on the toilet paper roll? Bathroom brainstorming is my personal strong point as well.
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mondo84: I understand some want to use Steam for updates, multiplayer integration, mods, etc., but it seems odd to not address DRM-free options at all.
As you say, Steamwoks adds a lot of benefits to developers. It's a big deal to agree to release everything outside of Steam as well.
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