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General discussionHatred (game)(2790 posts)(2790 posts)
(2790 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 22, 2014
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KasperHviid: Are developers of Hatred racist extremists or are they not? A site called gamepolitics.com has actually asked them about it. Read the developers response HERE!
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Brasas: Did it change your mind I wonder? Post #385 right here has even more details.
Nope, sorry! :-) It confirmed that they are right wing extremist:

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THE ACCUSATION: Jakub Stychno allegedly supports "Obóz Narodowo Radykalny" ("National Radical Camp"), an "extreme-right" anti-communist group which has been identified by the European Human Rights Association as an organization that engages in hate speech.

THEIR REPLY: (None)

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THE ACCUSATION: A group photo of the studio shows previously mentioned Jakub Stychno wearing a Żołnierze wyklęci (also called "cursed soldiers") t-shirt. The "cursed soldiers" were an anti-communist military group formed during World War II. While seen as important historical heroes in Poland, they are also admired by extreme right-wing activists in country.

THEIR REPLY: "'Żołnierze Wyklęci' were an underground polish army, who were fighting Nazis and after the fall of [the] Third Reich, they were treating communists who came to Poland as the same kind of enemy that Nazis were. They were fighting with those new occupants after the war is over. They were never associated with Freikorps, it's bullshit and I don't know where from people get their historical informations. 'Żołnierze Wyklęci' are considered a national heroes of Poland, but their memory is obviously a pain in the ass for all commie-lovers and their supporters, so they try to defame all those who remember. TL;DR - if someone considers people who were fighting Nazis and another totalitarian regime as Nazis themselves, are really fucking stupid."

MY TAKE: I give them this much: It was fucking stupid that the original article claimed that they were "neo-nazies". Right wing extremism has evolved a *lot* since 9/11, and neo-nazism are barely relevant today. But people who are stuck in the past still use neo-nazies as their typical label when refering to extremists.
They're right, they're not nazies - but this is not the core of the accusation, which is that 'Żołnierze Wyklęci' is very much adored by right wing extremists, and that it is very fucking unlikely to see anyone who isn't an extremist go dressed like that. In my own country, the freedom fighters who fought the nazies are likewise adored by extremists. People with pregressive views are typically called "traitors" by those extremists, with a direct reference to the danish traitors who were executed by the freedom fighters after the war. Here is a few translated quotes where danish extremists explores the freedom fighter troope:
»If this ruling remain in effect, illegality moves closer. Like under the previous occupation.«
»We are undoubtedly facing a period of violent and dramatic events. This shameful attempt to rape the Danish people in their own homes can and must lead to resistance when we true to our entire history enables us to fight back against Denmark's demise as a Danish country.«
»The foreign policy through the last two decades has made it essential to review the concepts in order to clarify what today may be called treason, and who is responsible for it.«
»Last time the traitors gave us five cursed years under the Nazis. This time they will give us 1000 cursed years under Islam«
»Of course I'm a racist - it's all good Danes. Either you are a racist, or you are a traitor.«
... So I know for a fact that extremist in denmark *loves* the resistance movement, and it is very likely the same case in Poland.

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THE ACCUSATION: Creative Destruction CEO and Animator Jaroslaw Zielinski also allegedly has associations with extreme-right causes; his Facebook page at one time showed that he is a supporter of the "nationalist, anti-Muslim hate group Polska Liga Obrony (Polish Defence League)."

THEIR REPLY: "As for me supposedly 'supporting' Polska Liga Obrony on Facebook. Well, I've liked this page, because it's source of an information what is going on right now in the middle-east and Europe (and a lot of evil shit is going on - those are REAL problems, not our game). Some things media would not show, nor tell. So: no, I'm not any kind of 'supporter.'"

MY TAKE: He says that he liked the page because of its content, but he is not a 'supporter'? Anyway, he confirms that he had liked the page and his view-points are in sync with said extremist group. Thats good enough for me.

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THE ACCUSATION: FX artist Marcin Kazmierczak is also a supporter of "homophobic, racist, unpleasant Facebook pages" (according to Player Attack's report), as well as a supporter of the "nationalistic, homophobic youth organization Mlodziez Wszechpolska (All-Polish Youth)."

THEIR REPLY: (none)
Post edited October 22, 2014 by KasperHviid
Posted October 22, 2014
Yeah, that article basically came down to:

Q: Are you guys a bunch of crazy, fascist, right-wing nutjobs?

A: No, but we admire their work

Not too good, I think.
Posted October 22, 2014
low rated
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monkeydelarge: Okay one more time. Why not. I'm sure debating with someone like you is good exercise for my brain.
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amok: Indeed, and I guess you need the exercise. Happy to oblige

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monkeydelarge: "I do apologise for ignoring a large quote and a repetitive passage"
You ignored a lot more than that. I already proved you wrong but you ignored that part too. I will copy and paste that part here, hoping maybe you wont ignore it again.

"Hostile? How? If GOG doesn't sell the game then a lot of people A) wont be able to play the game because they have zero tolerance for DRM or B) be forced to buy the Steam version which is inferior in every way compared to a GOG. Both A) and B) = denying innocent people some happiness and money(for the developers and the publisher). Both A) and B) = being hostile to innocent people. "
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amok: Already addressed this point earlier, but you ignored my reply, so.... I am not sure what this proves.

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monkeydelarge: So...

If someone prevents you from making money from your hard work then that is an hostile act. Because then you will be making less money. And no money, no honey. The less money you make, the lower quality your life will be... and a low quality life makes people unhappy. :(
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amok: and your solution is? all stores should sell everything? I do not recollect you calling gOg hostile in for example the Winter Wolves thread for rejecting them? Or all the other times they have rejected a game. Or does this 'hostility' only apply to games you like?

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monkeydelarge: If someone prevents you from getting a GOG version of a game you want then that is a hostile act. Because nothing beats a GOG version. People want the most for their money. If people have to settle for less, it makes them unhappy... :( And GOG allows refunds so if someone is unable to buy a GOG version then there is a chance they will lose money for nothing(if Hatred doesn't work on their machine). And losing money for nothing makes people unhappy. :(
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amok: No, it is not a 'hostile act'. Whether or not something beats a gOg version is subjective (you fanboi, you). I do know for a developer buying games direct is superior (as they get a larger cut, but it depends off course who you want to support...). The point you are trying to make here is extremely subjective at best.

If your point is that the developer loose monies, then you should really be campaigning to get the this game on Steam (good luck) as it has been shown that Steam tends to account for 50-80% of total sales when a game is released in multiple stores.

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monkeydelarge: This most recent post of yours does finally try to explain one of your points but failed.
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amok: Ah, goody - lets see.

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monkeydelarge: You wrote two short letters. Both letters are informing people behind a game about a hostile action taken towards them. This just proves you can be hostile towards a group of people and be two faced polite to them at the same time. But the politeness does not cancel out the hostility so the store is still hostile to the people behind the game. Not one of those letters are friendly. A friendly letter from a store does not inform people of a hostile action taken towards them. Just like a declaration of war is not a friendly letter but could be a polite letter if the person who wrote it, wanted it to be civil. So just to make things clear, polite words do not turn a hostile action into a friendly action. If you are still not convinced, read this letter.
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amok: So.... all acts of rejection are per definition a hostile act?

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monkeydelarge: "Dear Mr. ______,
I regret to inform you that an African American employee unfortunately does not fit in with our store profile. I must admit I have nothing against you and if you do wish to work at our store in the future you would need to change your skin color and apply again. We do wish you a lot of luck in your endeavors, and we are looking forward to see working here one day after meeting our requirements. Again, we are sorry that an African American employee unfortunately does not fit in with our store profile.
Kindest regards,
Your racist store"
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amok: you do so love your little analogies, don't you?

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monkeydelarge: " see above. As far as I know, the only thing that fits here is that I said they need to take responsibility of their own actions. I think? is that it?"
No you said a lot more than that. You said this in a previous post. "This is not a group of innocent people, they are making a controversial game, they know they are making a controversial game, and therefore need to face the consequences for it."
If you say these people are not innocent then you are saying they are evil or are guilty of doing something evil. Explain why making a controversial game is an evil act? And your words "therefore need to face the consequences for it" means you think these people should be punished too. Changing the words around to fool me is not going to work. If you can not explain why you think these people are evil or guilty of committing an evil act. Then that means, you have no good reason to want them punished. So if you have no good reason, then it means, you have a bad reason you don't want to share or you just want to win this debate, just to win.
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amok: Again, you are the one equating guilty = evil. I have done any such thing. I have never said they are evil (in fact I think they are rather sad....) I said they are guilty (opposite of innocent....) of creating a controversial game, even intending to create a controversial game. This is guilt and intent :)

That means the developers are knowingly doing this act, and should therefore not be surprised about the reaction they get - including not getting on the major retail sites. It has been the developers choice from day one. Taking responsibility for their own action, is accepting the positive and negative sides for taking just such an action. One big positive is that they get a lot of free PR, one big negative is that they will struggle getting into mainstream stores.

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monkeydelarge: If you can explain to me, why creating a controversial game like Hatred is bad for the world,
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amok: yeah, it is disgusting and its addition to our cultural heritage do not bring anything at all (yes, this is subjective again :)).

Nah, it is not bad for the world at all, its existence will neither rise nor lower violence in the world. Still, it is a disgusting game, and while the it do not make the world worse, it sure do not make the world any better either. I have never said it will do either, and it has never been a point of mine. I just think it is a pointless and disgusting game, and if a store thinks so to, I think they should be free to not sell it.

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monkeydelarge: then that means if a store refuses to sell such a game, they have a good reason to not sell such a game.
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amok: there are many good reasons not to sell this game, it do not just have to be 'bad for the world'. Do you think it is on this criteria gOg rejects game? They think they are 'bad for the world'?

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monkeydelarge: And that means, you have the moral high ground for pressuring GOG into not selling Hatred and every store that refuses to sell Hatred has the moral high ground too.
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amok: and your moral high-ground for pressuring a store to sell games they do not want is?

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monkeydelarge: If your next post does not contain such an explanation(an explanation that should of been put forth in an earlier post), then I will ignore all your posts in this thread after your next one.
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amok: More than a store should have the freedom to reject items they do not like to sell, or do not want to be associated with? That a store should not be forced to sell material they think would be damaging for them? I think this has been my point in all my replies to you.

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monkeydelarge: Because if your next post does not contain any explanations but more useless words, then this debate has reached a dead end.
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amok: no more brain exercise? Speaking of pointless words, I am waiting breathlessly on your next analogy :)
Okay, I give up.
Attachments:
godzilla_facepal.jpg (36 Kb)
Post edited October 22, 2014 by monkeydelarge
Posted October 22, 2014
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Did I already mention that i will love the HATRED game. I will sleep with the Hatred game, I will kiss the Hatred game and I and the Hatred game will marry. Then we will make a baby Hatred game and you Hippys cant stop us from doing it and doing it again and again... why ? cuz you are a Hippy!
Posted October 22, 2014
Soooo when's this game coming out? Wouldn't mind playing it.
Posted October 22, 2014
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JudasIscariot: Soooo when's this game coming out? Wouldn't mind playing it.
Q2 2015 is estimated release date at the moment.
Posted October 22, 2014
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JudasIscariot: Soooo when's this game coming out? Wouldn't mind playing it.
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Matruchus: Q2 2015 is estimated release date at the moment.
Cool. Might actually get Windows installed by then :D
Posted October 22, 2014
This game reminds me of a dreadful mistake I made when I was still in school. I had gotten my hands on a demo for the first GTA, and pleaded with my mother to buy it for me. I described it as a game where you drive around a city and do jobs for people. When she reluctantly agreed, I got excited and made the fatal error of telling her more about the game. In particular, that you play as a crook committing crimes :P Yeah, that didn't end well. That is, it ended with me not getting the game :(

From her perspective I can't blame her however. One of my friends though had it bad with his parents. He bought Pharaoh, and one day when he wasn't home his parents got hold of the game's manual and paged through it. Suffice to say, they were not impressed with the fact that you built temples in the game to appease heathen gods. I don't recall what happened, but he may have been forbidden to play the game after that, or perhaps he convinced them that it was optional.
Posted October 22, 2014
low rated
After seeing 21 pages worth of whiny nonsense, I'm hoping this game sells a million copies.

There's some people here who love a good book burning... and yet somehow it's the intellectual left. Ironic, isn't it?
Posted October 22, 2014
low rated
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Emob78: After seeing 21 pages worth of whiny nonsense, I'm hoping this game sells a million copies.

There's some people here who love a good book burning...
It's still nice to be reminded of the mindless zealotry and dishonesty that inhabits mankind. As long as no one gets burned.
Post edited October 22, 2014 by realkman666
Posted October 22, 2014
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Emob78: After seeing 21 pages worth of whiny nonsense, I'm hoping this game sells a million copies.

There's some people here who love a good book burning... and yet somehow it's the intellectual left. Ironic, isn't it?
I like your first sentence but your 2nd sentence. I don't like it. It's not the intellectual left who want this game tossed into the fire. If you look back at history, all kinds of people were guilty of book burning... And you'll see that most of the book burning in the past was done by people leaning towards the right...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_book-burning_incidents
Post edited October 22, 2014 by monkeydelarge
Posted October 22, 2014
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Emob78: There's some people here who love a good book burning... and yet somehow it's the intellectual left. Ironic, isn't it?
As already been covered earlier in this thread, nobody has argued for a ban of the game. We just say that it sucks, IMHO mainly because the developers are a group of right-wing extremists.

And as I noticed back then: "Generally, whenever someone complains that some film or game is disgusting and immoral or whatever, someone else is sure to begin a heart-felt counter-agueing against censorship - even through nobody has talked about banning the stuff."
Post edited October 22, 2014 by KasperHviid
Posted October 22, 2014
low rated
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Emob78: There's some people here who love a good book burning... and yet somehow it's the intellectual left. Ironic, isn't it?
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KasperHviid: As already been covered earlier in this thread, nobody has argued for a ban of the game. We just say that it sucks, IMHO mainly because the developers are a group of right-wing extremists.

And as I noticed back then: "Generally, whenever someone complains that some film or game is disgusting and immoral or whatever, someone else is sure to begin a heart-felt counter-agueing against censorship - even through nobody has talked about banning the stuff."
So you're saying that a game can suck and be judged based on the political beliefs of its developers? Hmmm... seems I recall a similar counterpoint being made by certain individuals about a game called Gone Home.
Posted October 22, 2014
low rated
I also love commando lybia and Beach Head... there are other little gems i could mention but i wont. People might get offended... Bring it on Mofo bring it on I say! Hatred NOW or never. If you dont love the Hatred then the Hatred will remember you. Its the Aliens that made the hatred, the nazi aliens from the hollow earth....
Posted October 22, 2014
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JudasIscariot: Soooo when's this game coming out? Wouldn't mind playing it.
I found this song incredibly appropriate for this game, if you ever play it, play this song aswell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYE-uJYCbGk
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Community
General discussionHatred (game)(2790 posts)(2790 posts)
(2790 posts)