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General discussionGOG Mafia #26: S.T.A.L.K.E.R - The Dangers of the Zone(1131 posts)(1131 posts)
(1131 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 05, 2015
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dedoporno: I'm not saying we share all and the exact same knowledge, but I'm pretty sure we share at least some.
Call me thick headed, blame the lack of sleep, or say what you want, but let me quote you

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dedoporno: Funnily, you should have the exact same knowledge as me, if you are Town.
Doesn't post 222 clash with post 232?
Posted March 05, 2015
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Bookwyrm627: My possible theories:
1) Dedo is town, and found something either in particular or in aggregate that convinced him I'm town.
2) Dedo is town, and we've just happened to match up ideas enough to make him confident I'm town. This is roughly how I view him (we ended up on the same side of the mechanics discussions earlier; you may recall how I noted some time back that he and I might get linked by our agreement).
3) Dedo is town, and has some other play. I don't know what it is, so obviously I can't extrapolate much further.
4) Dedo is scum, and trying to get me lynched if he goes down. You've already pointed out why this would be a terrible idea on his part. Town can trade scum 1-1 all day and still win. In this game, Town can even trade scum 2-1 and still win (assuming <5 scum). If this is his play, I'm happy to go down with him.
5) Dedo is scum, and so already knows I'm town. This seems to be Flub's theory. Might be Krypsyn's too; he's been exceptionally close-mouthed about the particulars (had me wondering for awhile whether he'd been restricted, he was so terse, but he's dropped paragraphs since then).
How you managed to miss the theory that dedo may be scum and just latching onto someone who looks scucmmy (trent) is beyond me.

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dedoporno: I strongly believe so, yes. I'm not saying we share all and the exact same knowledge, but I'm pretty sure we share at least some. RWarehall seems to be picking up. Others should be able, too.
Oh, totally agreed. We could be picking it up, but do we want to? It's first day, we got almost nothing to go off and you want us to see some ambiguous point that maybe makes 0 sense to me even if I see it. So why don't you just do the pleasantries and explain? I see your vote pretty much as baseless as TB's. The point that we all may think in the same parameters is purely ridiculous!
Posted March 05, 2015
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JMich: Call me thick headed, blame the lack of sleep, or say what you want, but let me quote you

Doesn't post 222 clash with post 232?
For the part I'm thinking of - yes, it should be the exact same knowledge.

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HijacK: Oh, totally agreed. We could be picking it up, but do we want to? It's first day, we got almost nothing to go off and you want us to see some ambiguous point that maybe makes 0 sense to me even if I see it. So why don't you just do the pleasantries and explain? I see your vote pretty much as baseless as TB's. The point that we all may think in the same parameters is purely ridiculous!
Giving it straight away pretty much defeats the purpose. You are totally right on not having much to latch on. That's why I'm trying to make the best of what I have.

The cow can be milked some more. We will get there at some point, though.
Posted March 05, 2015
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JMich: Call me thick headed, blame the lack of sleep, or say what you want, but let me quote you

Doesn't post 222 clash with post 232?
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dedoporno: For the part I'm thinking of - yes, it should be the exact same knowledge.
So half truths, evasions and deflection as well. And if mean that the knowledge is contained in the thread, then the same knowledge would also be available to non-townies as well, even though you dismiss that in post 222 once more, since you use the conditional
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dedoporno: if you are town
Now even more curious about what you mean.
Posted March 05, 2015
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adaliabooks: Having re-read Bookwyrm's posts I'm putting his engagement in the whole mechanics discussion purely down to youthful exuberance (read: he's new ;) ).
This makes me sound like a puppy. Which is fair, I suppose, because I've felt kind of like one in this game on occasion.

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trentonlf: Care to enlighten us as to what makes Bookwyrm almost surely town?
Flippant remark: My PM does, meatbag. (Yes, I know I'm the only player that gets to see it)

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trentonlf: Sounds like you agree in that his play has been scummy, but you know something that makes him town. You even said you saw it coming that someone was going to place a vote on Bookwyrm, and that he put himself into a situation where a vote on him may be seen as a very decent step but only if you don't see why he is almost surely Town. Unless you have some power that enables you to see what alignment everyone is there is no sure about it.

I find someones play scummy, and with every post he makes it worse. So I place my vote and give my reasons. If you disagree with those reasons and feel I'm trying to place a vote unjustly then by all means tell me why, but to say he put himself in a situation that made a vote seem a decent step and then turn right around and say he is almost surely town and place a vote on me for no reason other than I lack some knowledge you have seems really scummy.
Serious business:
You bold the "surely", ignore the "almost" right next to it, and postulate a power that enables viewing alignment because "there is no sure about it" otherwise.

Dedo says that my play looks scummy on the surface, but not if you look deeper. You've managed to misintrepret his post again. Several other players have stated they see a similar pattern to me (which might get me NK'd, but I digress).

You've (from my view) blatantly misinterpreted my posts on two separate occasions and totally ignored my explanations.

4 instances of misinterpretation so close together doesn't seem like coincidence to me.

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Bookwyrm627: So here I am:
Statement 1: I should try to avoid lynching any townie. Don't do scum's work for them if you don't have to.
Statement 2: People tend to view frequent vote hopping as scummy.
Therefore: I shouldn't go randomly vote hopping. Look for a reason.
Statement 4: All the literature (heh) around the game indicates that lurking is generally bad for town (Lynch All Lurkers).
Conclusion: Lacking any other leads, selecting a lurker to vote for would be decent play.
Corollary: Selecting the lurkiest player is better than selecting a slight lurker.
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HijacK: I believe CSPVG can quote me best on this, but if you don't know what I mean, I'll be blunt. Sugar sprinkled BS.
Lurking does not mean scum. Period. There have been games where scum have been the most vocal ones and people followed them like stupid. Game #22 is an example. My very beginning in the forum mafia games and the only efing game I lost. So no, before you try again to justify lurking as something scummy, think twice. In previous games we would have only killed important townies and power roles who ultimately played a part in town's win.
I did not say that lurking meant scum. I said that, and I quote, "Lacking any other leads, selecting a lurker to vote for would be decent play." I've read, multiple times, that lurking can and is used by scum to avoid making slips: conversation and explanations help town. Did you miss where Krypsyn got some suspicion for not communicating reasons? Read what I say, not just what you want to think I said.

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HijacK: How you managed to miss the theory that dedo may be scum and just latching onto someone who looks scucmmy (trent) is beyond me.
My bad. I'd already put together 5 theories to pick from after saying that I don't know why Dedo is so convinced. Next time I'll try to figure out your next guess and add that too. Then figure out the theory you'd propose after that, and add that to the list. Repeat ad nauseam, until I've got a wall of text even more massive than those I've already been outputting. It couldn't be that I just stopped trying to come up with even more possibilities for something I didn't know.
Posted March 05, 2015
I am just going to say this straight up, if all this talk of "you would know if you were town" is based on something in our PM's then this game already sucks. I am town and I have no idea if my PM is the same as any other townie and I don't want to know. This game is supposed to be about determining who is lying and lynch them base on their in game actions, not a PM the mod sends.

If this is the case of it being based off of PM's then please lynch me as I don't want to play that game.
Posted March 05, 2015
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trentonlf: I am just going to say this straight up, if all this talk of "you would know if you were town" is based on something in our PM's then this game already sucks. I am town and I have no idea if my PM is the same as any other townie and I don't want to know. This game is supposed to be about determining who is lying and lynch them base on their in game actions, not a PM the mod sends.

If this is the case of it being based off of PM's then please lynch me as I don't want to play that game.
Dont be sad - its what people are talking about that gives the clue. The PM the mod sends out is a little helper, is all - we extrapolate and make assumptions, but nothing is clear cut. By making assumptions and putting pressure on people, we can gauge heir reactions and act accordingly. Its not ever just a PM compare exercise. Who's to say each PM is not unique to each player.

Me and rwarehall *think* we know what dedo is on about - and it cant be revealed, as it will instantly become unusable. Thats if its what I think it is. I could be completely wrong of course!

Thats the beauty of the game - no info, we have to glean it where we can.
Posted March 05, 2015
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Robbeasy: ............<snip>...........

Me and rwarehall *think* we know what dedo is on about - and it cant be revealed, as it will instantly become unusable. Thats if its what I think it is. I could be completely wrong of course!

............<snip>...........
I got this quote from your post #220: "To sit on it without revealing is scummy play of the highest order."
Posted March 05, 2015
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flubbucket: I don't care about his vote for trentonlf, but dedo seems to have knowledge the rest of us don't have.
Ahh, so this is what you were talking about? No, this isn't my reason for voting for dedoporno; my reason is somewhat different (though complementary).

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Robbeasy: Me and rwarehall *think* we know what dedo is on about - and it cant be revealed, as it will instantly become unusable. Thats if its what I think it is. I could be completely wrong of course!
Hmm... I am not sure about this.

However, as far as Bookwyrm627 is concerned, I have him neutral to town by his actions/rhetoric alone.
Posted March 05, 2015
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Robbeasy: ............<snip>...........

Me and rwarehall *think* we know what dedo is on about - and it cant be revealed, as it will instantly become unusable. Thats if its what I think it is. I could be completely wrong of course!

............<snip>...........
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flubbucket: I got this quote from your post #220: "To sit on it without revealing is scummy play of the highest order."
the big difference is you picked up on a scutmtell, ive picked up on a town tell - one is good to reveal, one isn't. you must see that, im surprised you even question it.
Posted March 05, 2015
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Robbeasy: Dont be sad - its what people are talking about that gives the clue. The PM the mod sends out is a little helper, is all - we extrapolate and make assumptions, but nothing is clear cut. By making assumptions and putting pressure on people, we can gauge heir reactions and act accordingly. Its not ever just a PM compare exercise. Who's to say each PM is not unique to each player.

Me and rwarehall *think* we know what dedo is on about - and it cant be revealed, as it will instantly become unusable. Thats if its what I think it is. I could be completely wrong of course!

Thats the beauty of the game - no info, we have to glean it where we can.
Thank you, my thoughts exactly. The vote on trent may or may not be accurate. We are yet to see about that. The more important thing is that some external data accumulated in the process that will help us in the long (not even that long) run.

And yes, I'm pretty sure we speak in the same language.
Posted March 05, 2015
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Robbeasy: the big difference is you picked up on a scutmtell, ive picked up on a town tell - one is good to reveal, one isn't. you must see that, im surprised you even question it.
You reveal a scum tell to inform town that said person is scum. You reveal a town tell to inform town that said person is town. In both cases, the uninformed majority learn about the affiliation of an unknown, while the informed minority already knows said affiliation.
If it's not a scum/town tell but a role tell, then it's a different story. So no, I don't see a difference between not revealing a scum tell and not revealing a town tell.
Posted March 05, 2015
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Robbeasy: the big difference is you picked up on a scutmtell, ive picked up on a town tell - one is good to reveal, one isn't. you must see that, im surprised you even question it.
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JMich: You reveal a scum tell to inform town that said person is scum. You reveal a town tell to inform town that said person is town. In both cases, the uninformed majority learn about the affiliation of an unknown, while the informed minority already knows said affiliation.
If it's not a scum/town tell but a role tell, then it's a different story. So no, I don't see a difference between not revealing a scum tell and not revealing a town tell.
Agreed.

I couldn't have said it any better.
Posted March 05, 2015
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Robbeasy: the big difference is you picked up on a scutmtell, ive picked up on a town tell - one is good to reveal, one isn't. you must see that, im surprised you even question it.
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JMich: You reveal a scum tell to inform town that said person is scum. You reveal a town tell to inform town that said person is town. In both cases, the uninformed majority learn about the affiliation of an unknown, while the informed minority already knows said affiliation.
If it's not a scum/town tell but a role tell, then it's a different story. So no, I don't see a difference between not revealing a scum tell and not revealing a town tell.
Agree wholeheartedly
Posted March 05, 2015
To be clear, I, presumably we, believe this town tell to only be recognizable by town. As such, by taking more time and allowing other town to acknowledge recognition, we gain confirmed town. Once revealed, anyone, even scum, can claim "Oh I saw that". So once revealed, the additional benefit ends. Is that too hard to understand?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #26: S.T.A.L.K.E.R - The Dangers of the Zone(1131 posts)(1131 posts)
(1131 posts)