So you're basically talking about someone NK him, but he'd already been killed by Robb? Like I said, it's entirely possible, but I think Occam's Razor should be applied. We know Robb killed someone, the flavour fits with his role, why should we assume a second NK also occurred? Plus the unlikelyness (my spellcheck doesn't like that word, so I think I made it up) of the scenario isn't down to the set up, but the choices of the players. What are the odds that one of the targets of NK chooses to investigate / interact with a PGO and get killed?

Incidentally, I mentioned earlier the possibility of Twilight attempting to NK Robb, but as I understand it if that were the case they would usually both die.

I'm thinking your probably right on the luck thing. But as I understand it the roles are all assigned randomly, so that logic wouldn't work. I think the most likely option is they have a role cop who scanned Darko in N0, which this being role madness isn't too much of a stretch of the imagination as role cop is (as I understand) a fairly common scum role.

Hm, it seems you are correct. I need to pay more attention.

Also, were you allowed to stand guard at N0? If yes, did you?

I said this in the last game and I'll insist on it again: we know nothing, we only assume. The setup seems somewhat legit, but we shouldn't take anything at face value unless confirmed by a few different, independent sources (at least this early on when our knowledge is pretty much non-existent).

You are free to dismiss it, I'm just posting my thoughts and keeping an open mind since this is a Role Madness Game designed by flub.


May I ask how you came to the conclusion that the roles were assigned randomly?


I've been meaning to comment on this for a few days now.

Please check the timeline of events again.
1. It's trentonlf who first brings up the changed word.
2. says it's a synonym, and [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_25_terror_at_tres_leches/post787]trentonlf agrees.
3. Only then comes and mentions the changed word, which then [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_25_terror_at_tres_leches/post789]trentonlf confirms.

The win condition (or at least a significant part of it) is clearly stated in the OP. Even without knowing the exact wording of the win condition as stated in our PMs, it's not that hard to deduce from the OP which word was changed by adaliabooks - all it would take is to pick the word that can be changed without it altering the essence of the win condition.
Not sure why this gives yogsloth a few town points, and nth to trentonlf, or why it gives any points to anyone, for that matter.

I can answer this one.

It is a standard to randomly assign roles. Anything else is tantamount to cheating the gaming experience. Here, for what it's worth, is the actual Random.org "roles" stat for giggles.

Random.org roll
10
3
6
15
14
11
5
17
18
13
7
4
2
9
19
8
16
12

Now if I would just give you the list of players....

Yep. Seems I was to willing to give town points for something that can easily be faked ... as HijacK already pointed out. It was my impression at the time, but maybe I was (too easily) fooled. Well, you live (as of now) and learn (hopefully).


Yes, I'm with you there. And this:

might be a hint who has a reason not to want to be investigated. ... But it still could be that yog lied about having been blocked, specifically to make CSPVG look more suspicious. But over all I still see CSPVG more on the scummy side, because what I explained on day one, his premature claim makes more sense for scum than for town. A town cop should have waited and watched to evaluate whether he's naive or not, instead of claiming, confusing everything and delivering a second target to the scum (which then apparently wasn't even targeted at night).

That is actually a very good question to which I would like the answer as well. Rob? I wouldn't have assumed that you would be the first in line for a NK with two claimed cops around. So why choose to stand guard tonight?


So. How about we start talking whom to lynch next? As I see it, we should lynch either CSPVG or Rob next. Rob for obvious reasons, which he stated himself. And yes, he appears overall helpful and somewhat towny, but still it will be prudent to go through with that lynch. However, I would like to know more about how to obtain a flip, if that can be influenced from our side, before we lynch him. If that is possible. Because if we don't learn from the lynch it will be a wasted opportunity. The other option would be CSPVG, to resolve our 'two claimed cops' dilemma. He is, as explained above, still the one of the two who is more likely to be lying. However, if I am wrong with that, we loose a cop (although, should he be naive, that wouldn't be such a big loss).

The 'Paranoid' refers to the fact I kill with no regard to faction I believe

I'll be completely honest with you - I couldn't resist using it. It was probably not the best time, but I had a funny feeling the two claimed cops would be left alone, and someone else would be targetted. I wasn't wrong.

I
justjust got up and haven't even read the thread and am posting from phone. Some issues going on at the other house. Police are on there way their so we are too. Not sure whats going on over there yet. Not sure when ill be back on today to catch up bit I will at somepoint

I completely agree with this. The idea that we target CSPVG, especially when we're not even sure we will get a flip, is scummy as hell.

I'm still not sure what's going on with yogs or CSPVG, but I think we need to at least think about what is going on with flips before we can consider lynching either of them.

I've been thinking about it, and discounting the idea that flips are completely random, there seem to be two logical choices:

1) Scum and anti town don't get flips
2) Town kills (including lynches) don't get flips

And of those only one really makes sense, 2. If scum don't get flips that doesn't hide much info, we still know who is scum, just not their roles. That's not a huge loss. But if town lynches don't provide any flip, we need to be much more careful who we lynch.

Don't worry, we'll all still be here when you get back. Hope everything's all right.

Oh? This sounds unpleasant to say the least. I'm crossing my fingers that it's nothing serious.

I wish people would stop saying Sage was in the dinner. Darko was in the dinner - Sage was in the diner.

Nope. Please do read what I wrote again. You seem to be (intentionally?) misinterpreting what I wrote. I didn't say it's no big deal if we do lynch town. It's just that with a claim like Rob's we will probably have to lynch him at some point, because his claim would otherwise be a too strong shield for scum to hide behind. A role that can't be confirmed by a cop? Rob himself wrote it, that at some point there will be a policy lynch and that he is willing to take that sacrifice for the town. And I agree that a role like PGO claimed so early will eventually lead to a policy lynch.
But as I wrote: I would like to know more about how to obtain a flip, if that can be influenced from our side, before we lynch him.

As for CSPVG I still think it is more likely that he is scum than that he is actually the town cop he says. Of course, it is possible that he is cop. And that is about the only thing holding me off from voting on him. Which again shows how convenient his claim was, IF he is scum. It all hinges for me on his choice to claim so early. If he is town, it was a bad choice. If he is scum, it was a gamble with a good payoff (a cofused and hesitant town).
Also: yog claims to have been blocked from investigating CSPVG (which fits if someone didn't want CSPVG to be investigated) and CSPVG apparently wasn't targeted at night, although he claimed town cop. That too would fit well with him being scum.

While I do agree that CSPVG's claim would be a very good shield for scum, with the information available today I don't think we should even consider a lynch on him.

If I were scum and knew what Darko's role was (and what confusion it would cause to hit neither claimed cop) I would definitely have done what they did and hit him while leaving the cops alive. If hitting Darko was more down to random luck this is less likely, but we can't really know that.

If we were to lynch CSPVG and get no flip, we wouldn't even know whether we had hit scum or killed our cop.
I admit yogs being blocked is also slightly suspect, but it doesn't rule out yogs being scum (possibly a role cop? although if he is and scanned RWarehall that makes the scanning of Darko less possible). But again, in scum's shoes I would probably do the same, 1 to stop a cop from scanning, and 2 to cause confusion in the town.

I do have you leaning town, and if I believe CSPVG is a town cop (which I do for now) than that makes you confirmed town. But I don't really like the way you have been suggesting we lynch a cop for information (especially knowing we might not even get that info).

I'm not sure where I stand on lynching Robb... I believe his claim, but understand that he should probably be lynched just in case it is a cover, and at least it might give us more info on flips. Shame we didn't keep RWarehall alive... we could have had them shoot each other and solved the flip question once and for all...

Maybe I'm a naive git, but I pretty much feel it's best to consider CSPVG as telling the truth.

With no flips, Town would need extra investigative abilities for balance purposes. I can believe that would be achieved with two cops, a coroner, and probably something else as well.

My being roleblocked doesn't really say one way or the other... It's obvious scum would want to stop me from returning an "anti-town" verdict, but they would also want to block a "town" result as well in order to foster confusion.

In the meantime, you get another day or two of his reads and add them all up later. For example, if he's scum, that would mean Lift probably is too. Do you buy that? Or do you need more data?