LOL I got it like 15 seconds after posting. Yes, this was a mistake. I got yogsloth and CSPVG mixed up, but what I said applies to both of them.

While I agree with the possibility, I refer you to Day 1 last game to show how effective a claim it is for scum...

Also:

HijacK claims to know who Twilight visited, which would presumably be Robb. But if Robb was scum, that wouldn't really tell us anything. He could just say Twilight tried to investigate him, but someone else NK'd him. Therefore the claim would be unnecessary.

Plus I (and dedo) had come to the conclusion this was really the most logical option anyway (before his claim) so I do tend to believe him.

I'd like to think I at least inspired him to include the role... although it sounds like's had it all set up for ages, so probably not.

So unlike a paranoid cop, a paranoid gun owner is aware of his condition? I want to make sure I'm clear on this.

Yes. I think dedo explained earlier, there are two types of Paranoid.

One is a modifier which makes a cop's investigations all return guilty results, regardless of target's alignment.

I think in the case of the Paranoid Gun Owner (which I think might just be the role name anyway) the Paranoid means you don't have a choice about using your power (although Robb's description doesn't entirely match that case).

I get a choice - each night I can choose to stand guard, or not.

The lack of choice is who I kill - its indiscriminate. Thats why its Paranoid - if I choose to stand guard, anyone coming near me gets it.

@Lifthrasil - think it through -would what I have revealed really be a scum play? By claiming it I have put myself basically out for lynch. If you really think I'm 'buying time' then lynch me today!

I'm still of the idea that either Yog or CSPVG is lying. Unfortunately , its all largely WIFOM - theres a case for every possible scenario.

Do you waste the shot if you stand guard and no one comes?

I tried to catch up with everything, but since I had yet another difficult day, I'll have to do a reread.

For now, a few thoughts, mostly regarding TwilightBard's death.

I'm puzzled by the description of his death scene. The piece of rope indicates that they were captured (it didn't tie itself to his leg, did it now?), but the weapon used to kill him was a rifle, which, if I'm not mistaken, a mid-to-long range weapon. It's also not clear if they were fist tied then shot or the other way around.

So, I'm wondering - what if the tying and carving go together and were performed by a different person than the shooting? If TwilightBard visited his killer (Robbeasy by their claim) on his own free will, then the tying couldn't have happened before the shooting. If Robbeasy tells the truth, then someone else found TwilightBard after he was shot, and decided to use the body to send a message; they carved him, then tied him to the vehicle used to drag him back to town, and then dropped him in the town square "neatly cutting" the end of the rope that was tied to the vehicle.

On the other hand, Robbeasy's claim fits the "STAY AWAY" message, he even said so in his claim-post (emphasis mine):

Of course he could have just copied it from flub's post to make his claim more believable.


A couple more initial thoughts:

- If yogsloth's telling the truth about being blocked, then someone didn't want CSPVG to be investigated. Would a townie have any reasons not to want CSPVG be investigated?

- Interesting that while everyone seems to be over TwilightBard's dead body (though no one is specifically mentioned), Sage's in the dinner. Why was she in the dinner and not in the town square? Does certain players being mentioned by name mean something?

- Not sure what the way DarkoD13 was killed may be telling. What I do find interesting is that with two claimed Town Cops, one gets blocked (or so they say) and the other is left in peace to go about their business (or so they say), and the NK is a third person, a not confirmed till their death townie.


As I said, I need to do a reread, but not sure if I do that tonight.

I honestly have no idea why Flub picked me. I went and check how we were numbered in the opening post - that was not it. I did not put the first vote on RW or in the game itself so its not that. The only thing I can think is payback for me talking his ears off the last game.

Okay, ya' got me.

Hi everyone-

Sorry - migraine KO'd me most of the day. It happens.

I'm caught up. More interesting developments, although of course still waiting for HijacK to confirm who TB visited. Assuming he will confirm.

If I were flub, I would have made adalia the PGO just for the lulz. :)

Interesting link to game 12 - I don't necessarily agree with everything there, but it's certainly a good alternative perspective on the current situation. Thanks for that, flub.

I'm still in a holding pattern, logic-wise, but Robb is correct that he's essentially a policy lynch candidate.

As I've stated - I assume Twilight was my doing, but I'm not 100% sure - I was given no name, and no flavour except that I shot them to death. The carving, the rope etc - there's no mention of this in my flavour.

The bit you quote above is just me adding my own flavour to my role.

@Dedoporno - it says I have three shots - so I presume that if I stand guard and no shots are fired, I still have that shot.

I'm more inclined to believe Robbeasy, since this was my suspicion before he made the claim. Of course, books also thought of this, it's only natural that someone else also would and possibly use it to their advantage, but a counter claim would be disastrous. I'm pretty sure this wasn't mafia NK since the surrounding circumstances are very different and don't make that much sense in this case.

Keep in mind I was also there, not only Sage.

I think the important thing to remember is that no one would have known Twilight would die when submitting night actions, so if there was a second action what would it have been? Some kind of message passing? I suppose he could have been NK'd and hit by Robb, but while we have had one person hit by two NKs in a previous game I find it unlikely it has happened again.

I have a few theories on that. The scum may have expected one or both the cops to be protected, so instead of possibly wasting the NK they hit another townie. Whether they have a role cop and knew Darko's role or whether they just got lucky is another question.

Alternatively yogs may have been jailled (blocked and protected) and CSPVG not targeted because he is scum. Or yogs may not have used his power because he is scum.

One of them could even have been targeted by a NK and saved, if we still think there might be another anti town faction.

Why did you decide to use your ability, especially when we had two claimed cops?

Regarding my theory, I can see three possibilities:
1. You did it all, yet for some reason don't remember any of your actions after the shooting, or you were not told about them, which would imply that there's more to the role you claimed.
2. You did it all and remember it, but are not being 100% forthcoming with your claim.
3. You have nth to do with the carving and tying, so somebody else must have done it.

If you're telling the truth and got a PM saying that you killed someone, then we're a body short if TwilightBard was captured, tortured and killed by someone else. Unless of course, flub somehow forced Crewdroog to visit you in order to get her out of the game. But that would imply that he made you waste one of your shots on a player that had no impact on the game; I don't think that he's that wicked.

Speaking of your shots - what's your role in the game after you've used up your shots? Are you regarded as a Vanilla Townie then?


I'm not dismissing his claim, I'm just puzzled by the death description - we have a shooting, and we have a message carved on his chest and a piece of rope tied to TwilightBard's leg. See my reply to Robbeasy for possible explanations I'm thinking of.


Please read the relevant passage again (emphasis mine): She's the only one placed in the dinner from the beginning. You were among "the rest of the town" that ran to see what's happened there after she screamed. You were named to be that "someone" that went to look in the kitchen, after we witnessed nth out of the ordinary in the dinner room.


So far this game has been anything but typical, so I'm not quick to label anything as "unlikely".

I'm also not saying that the night-action was "if I find TwilightBard dead, then I'll carve them, tie them to my vehicle and drop them in the town square to send a message to everyone". I'm toying with the idea that someone else had plans to kill him and send the message. If Robbeasy's telling the truth that he does not target specific players, then TwilightBard getting killed by him and not someone else was sort of a case of "being at the wrong place at the wrong time". In other words, the original killer of TwilightBard was beaten by Robbeasy regarding the first part of their night-action, simply because of TwilightBard's decision to visit Robbeasy; their goal though was achieved - TwilightBard was killed.

If Robbeasy also had nth to do with the carving and tying, then it must have been the doing of TwilightBard's original killer. Putting aside who killed TwilightBard, is there a reason for the rest of the original killer's night-action to not have been carried out since the goal of getting him killed was achieved?


There are indeed many possibilities regarding what went down. I'm less inclined to think that luck had anything to do with DarkoD13 being the target, especially after flub disclosed that this is a Role Madness Game.
So either they assumed that DarkoD13, as an experienced player, would have been given a key-role, or they knew he had a key-role.