Posted August 09, 2015
*whistles innocently*
Uhh, not to sound derogatory, but wouldn't you have been the guest of honor at that barbeque?
Uhh, not to sound derogatory, but wouldn't you have been the guest of honor at that barbeque?
Bookwyrm627
ADD Jumping Bean
Registered: Nov 2013
From United States
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany
Posted August 09, 2015
HELP! So much to reply to! I'm going to go through it page by page and in chronological order.
flubbucket: This is occurring 22 minutes after Lifthrasil's Unvote. To me it looks a little LAMIST-y That's the first useful think you wrote in this thread. Thanks for conserving the time for posterity (since GOG doesn't conserve minutes).
<3 you too! I'm going to miss you. Write me a line when you feel like it and find the time!
Good post all in all and I am less comfortable with lynching you. But, as can be expected since, as you say yourself, we often clash in our conclusions, I don't agree on some of your conclusions. I see trent's behaviour as rather towny. If it was your point to provoke and he took the 'bait', it's a rather towny thing to do. Town is supposed to try to find the ones who behave inconsistently, because they might be scum. And, as you realized yourself, your play looked kind of inconsistend and raises a few flags. I had this exact discussion with HijacK in past games, that I don't think it helps to be too provocative as town. He changed his play-style in this game. You seem to have taken over. After actually suggesting (jokingly?) that someone else (Bookwyrm) should do the baiting. This doesn't exactly look townish. What I wonder most, however, and where I agree with your analysis is HijacKs lack of reaction. He should have latched on to you and moves a bit more to the scum side for me.
Concerning dedo: I don't think the second RVS vote was an attempt to build a train. I also think that it is impossible for a train to gain traction in RVS and I don't think any scum would be stupid enough to try it. There is nothing to be gained by such an attempt. So I think it was a genuine mistake and that you're trying too hard to construct a case out of it. I'm am not sure about dedo's alignment, but this RVS argument didn't make sense to me.
Last, but most important point about this post: if you think it so likely that dedo is scum, why not vote? You demanded time and again that people put their vote where their mouth is - and then you don't do it yourself. This is inconsistent play again.
So, on to the next page. In 10 minutes (to avoid double posting). I'll share my conclusions and vote in that next post.
<3 you too! I'm going to miss you. Write me a line when you feel like it and find the time!
Good post all in all and I am less comfortable with lynching you. But, as can be expected since, as you say yourself, we often clash in our conclusions, I don't agree on some of your conclusions. I see trent's behaviour as rather towny. If it was your point to provoke and he took the 'bait', it's a rather towny thing to do. Town is supposed to try to find the ones who behave inconsistently, because they might be scum. And, as you realized yourself, your play looked kind of inconsistend and raises a few flags. I had this exact discussion with HijacK in past games, that I don't think it helps to be too provocative as town. He changed his play-style in this game. You seem to have taken over. After actually suggesting (jokingly?) that someone else (Bookwyrm) should do the baiting. This doesn't exactly look townish. What I wonder most, however, and where I agree with your analysis is HijacKs lack of reaction. He should have latched on to you and moves a bit more to the scum side for me.
Concerning dedo: I don't think the second RVS vote was an attempt to build a train. I also think that it is impossible for a train to gain traction in RVS and I don't think any scum would be stupid enough to try it. There is nothing to be gained by such an attempt. So I think it was a genuine mistake and that you're trying too hard to construct a case out of it. I'm am not sure about dedo's alignment, but this RVS argument didn't make sense to me.
Last, but most important point about this post: if you think it so likely that dedo is scum, why not vote? You demanded time and again that people put their vote where their mouth is - and then you don't do it yourself. This is inconsistent play again.
So, on to the next page. In 10 minutes (to avoid double posting). I'll share my conclusions and vote in that next post.
HijacK
Bona fide badass
Registered: Apr 2012
From Romania
Posted August 09, 2015
Ah, were I a mod I would have trolled you so much by not giving a flip. That would have been so funny. I should be a stand up comedian.
Romanian subs ftw!
Riddle me this, but how does "picking up a random target and placing votes" guarantees such a chance, especially in the context of you saying that any lynch is a GOOD lynch since we gain info?
Epic LOL.
You sound like the majority of the religious nuts nowadays.
Semantics. When you enter a game you are supposed to gather information, not "be comfortable lynching anyone." Towns tool by default is the vote which can cause or prevent lynches. In order to win you need to lynch scum. Do you know what group of people also make part of this "just about anyone" composition? All town. Now given the fact that town outnumber scum, at least in the beginning of the game and the majority of the rest (JMich provided examples here scum tot own ration is 1:1 during a night phase), who do you think it is more likely for you to hit, especially considering picking a random target implies skipping the information gathering aspect. After all, if you were gathering info why pick a random target to being with?
I tried to tell him I'm not into that sort of thing, but he kept picking up my hand and trying to "read" my "future" in my palm.
So, did you fall from heaven?
On a more serious note, I wish you well and hopefully everything will fall in place soon and things will get better.
RL has made memorizing things a bit difficult lately due to various activities and preparations for moving in the college dorms, but if I am not mistaken (it could have been my imagination for all I know) I asked CSPVG at some point the same question he asked me. Now I don't recall exactly when. I'm assuming earlier in the game. I will have to go back and check for that very post. And no, before anyone asks I don't have the script installed. It seems I never quite find the time to do it.
Why is this dude's Montenegro? The name is trippy...
That's not a healthy mentality. Whether it is true or not it is entirely subjective. Even a broken clock shows the time right twice a day, and that's an objective truth... unless of course the limbs of the clock are not there... in which case screw that!
Post edited August 09, 2015 by HijacK
HijacK
Bona fide badass
Registered: Apr 2012
From Romania
Posted August 09, 2015
"Well.... you know.... technically when I said that I had no idea about everyone so my point stands." Great! In a technical way you're right. How about we get practical and realistic? This way of justifying what you've said sounds like a desperate attempt to appear reasonable, of course not unlike how scum often do. Still, maybe I'm weighing the meta game too much. A good sleep will let me clear my mind.
Also, welcome RWarehall!
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany
Posted August 09, 2015
That said: welcome! The brasserie and mini-skirt suit you. Not as well as they suited Sage, but still it's better than your usual garb! ;-)
Only Last game? You mean to imply, this game you aren't? ;-)
We lynch Krypsyn, if he's in the game. Or you, if he isn't. ... No seriously? What happens if we continue to have no leads at all is easy: we loose! Fortunately it is very unlikely that nothing at all along those four categories I mentioned pops up.
That being said one serious question: where is your vote? It is very unlike you to be so hesitant and not put your vote where your mouth is.
Back to adalia:
The main problem with your approach of provocative play is: we won't know what the reactions to your play might mean, if we don't get a flip on you. Sure, you know what alignment you are, but no one else does (unless you are scum and scum was informed of each others identity previous to the game). So how are we supposed to distinguish if you really ARE town trying a risky play or if you are scum, trying to throw a smoke-screen after being caught at an inconsistency? How are we going to rate the reactions to your play?
The problem is, this defense 'I was just trying to provoke' can be used by scum all the time, if we consider it a valid defense. And it frequently is used by scum, who got caught at some slip.
So basically what you achieved with you provocative play is two-fold: 1. you got us talking and voting, which is good. 2. you ensured that you should be lynched at some point to make use of your play and actually be able to evaluate the reactions to it. Which might, just might, be a price worth paying, if you are a vanilla townie, but still is dangerous play. If you should be a town power role, your play was very stupid. If you are scum, well, everything is fine then. We still get to evaluate the reactions to your 'slip' and we get rid of one scum. And there are still some flags pointing to that, as explained.
So all in all I feel that it is the best course for town to:
vote adaliabooks
again.
My other main suspects / players to watch most closely are at the moment: flubbucket (still for uselessing, apart from one sentence), HijacK (for not voting and not reacting with his usual intensity to adalia) and perhaps CSPVG and/or dedo (mostly a feeling and some minor things like the early suspect list and the unneccessary unvote).
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany
Posted August 09, 2015
Ah, OK. I forgot to refresh before sending and saw then, that you already answered my question. But I think 'you're a very static player' is a bad reason not to vote and your lack of reaction is still strange. I would have expected more pushing for answers from you (using the only weapon town has: the vote).
adaliabooks
"Vell, Zaphod's just zis guy, you know?"
Registered: Jun 2013
From United Kingdom
Posted August 09, 2015
Full claim it is then, I'm Doradon Mauvebeard, Dwarf Sorceror (Town Vanilla) STR 3 / AGI 3 / CHR 3 / INT 5
My father is a miner and wanted me to follow in his footsteps, but I just wanted to dance! So I secretly joined the Royal Ballet and... no. Wait. That's Billy Elliott. ;)
Apparently (and unsurprisingly) as a dwarf I'm a rubbish sorcerer with no useful powers, except dying!
And it looks like that's what it's going to be. Chalk this one up to experience, see you on the other side.
My father is a miner and wanted me to follow in his footsteps, but I just wanted to dance! So I secretly joined the Royal Ballet and... no. Wait. That's Billy Elliott. ;)
Apparently (and unsurprisingly) as a dwarf I'm a rubbish sorcerer with no useful powers, except dying!
And it looks like that's what it's going to be. Chalk this one up to experience, see you on the other side.
flubbucket
"Intoning"
Registered: Dec 2012
From Micronesia
Posted August 09, 2015
.......<snip>........
.......<snip>........
A dwarf usually has a minimum strength of 8. Also rarely a sorceror, possibly a cleric, usually a fighter.
Mauvebeard does sound a little "Nancy boy" but I'm no hater....
adaliabooks
"Vell, Zaphod's just zis guy, you know?"
Registered: Jun 2013
From United Kingdom
Posted August 09, 2015
.......<snip>........
A dwarf usually has a minimum strength of 8. Also rarely a sorceror, possibly a cleric, usually a fighter.
Mauvebeard does sound a little "Nancy boy" but I'm no hater....
So I made my own fun instead ;)
Hmmm... I wonder if you're on to something. Maybe yogs rolled stats randomly and our roles were picked based on them? Although that would explain why I'm a sorceror (INT is highest stat), it doesn't particularly explain why that's a vanilla role.. (unless my generally poor stats make me a vanilla? Might be that others will be able to figure that out themselves, but best not share)
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany
Posted August 09, 2015
A dwarf usually has a minimum strength of 8. Also rarely a sorceror, possibly a cleric, usually a fighter.
Mauvebeard does sound a little "Nancy boy" but I'm no hater....
So I made my own fun instead ;)
Also: at least in D&D sorcerors use CHR as casting stat. So a sorceror with low CHR (and a dancer with low DEX) and a dwarf to boot - you were very, very unlucky at character generation! (if your claim is true)
trentonlf
Easily amused
Registered: Apr 2014
From United States
adaliabooks
"Vell, Zaphod's just zis guy, you know?"
Registered: Jun 2013
From United Kingdom
Posted August 09, 2015
Also: at least in D&D sorcerors use CHR as casting stat. So a sorceror with low CHR (and a dancer with low DEX) and a dwarf to boot - you were very, very unlucky at character generation! (if your claim is true)
No, making my own fun was related to how I played the game itself :)
I'd certainly rather go out like this than have spent a week sitting around doing absolutely nothing, which seems to have been everyone else's plan for day 1. Sure, we'd probably have lynched CSPVG eventually for having suggested scum lists within the first few pages of the thread, but I bet it would have taken another week to get there (barring a short sharp deadline from yogs)
And if you are as town as you say open your eyes and evaluate the information available, my lynch and wagon is no less useful then any other wagon we've had since I started playing.
Of course, I really doubt you are town this time and so that won't make a jot of difference to you, once tomorrow dawns and I've flipped town you'll just shrug it off with "I was sure he must be scum! And he played so scummy he deserved it. Oh well, nothing to be gained from analysing his wagon, let's move swiftly on!"
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany
bler144
μαϊμού
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Posted August 09, 2015
Quick pass through - not sure I'll have time to read up this a.m. much less post anything meaningful. I'm leaving town in a few hours and daughter woke up an hour earlier than normal so going to spend time with her.
dedoporno
A bloody pirate!
Registered: Apr 2012
From Bulgaria
Posted August 09, 2015
The shared stats seem pretty average in comparison with the ones listed in the OP so if they are true Vanilla can make sense, I guess. Vanilla can also make sense with the entire play but unfortunately there isn't a surefire way to know for sure whether the play was made because of the role or the role was picked to make give the play more credibility.
I can't decide whether or not the flavor part makes sens (it wouldn't in every other game but Yog did threaten to f*ck with us whenever possible, so I can't rule that out).
All in all, I can't find a better option at the moment and as bler said I doubt anything will change to pick another course. If adaliabooks is really town vanilla scum will most certainly not touch him even with a ten foot pole and that will so the next best thing is to spare the lynch for a potential townie power role and if things actually go according to his plan - his flip may bring useful data for Tomorrow. In any other case we will be lynching a liar, so there's no problem.
@adaliabooks, you seem pretty convinced I'm scum, I won't try to change your mind on that since I don't think there is anything I can say to do so, but tell me something. What would you do if you were playing against yourself in that situation and were on your own wagon? Would you actually change your mind and risk a potentially more damaging townie mislynch or would you go through with it (please, try to give me an unbiased answer, if it helps imaging someone you trust more asked).
My vote will stay.