Here is where you get the add on for chrome

Here is a guide on using it

In the section "Method 2 of 3: Using the add-on" it shows the lazarus symbol in the upper right corner of the text box, and it is hard to see. It's easier to notice once you see it for the first time.

I'm really torn with flub because he does have a tendency to post like this as town, but it would be nice if he at least contributed something...

I tend to have the problem of thinking, "But he's been anti town three games in a row now, surely he can't be again" when it has absolutely no bearing on the likelihood of him being anti town this game..

So, I've been a bit quiet, but that's mostly because I don't really have much to contribute.

Now, I'm not at all happy with the way flub has played thus far, but because he acts like this on occasion, I can't quite bring myself to vote for him. I'm most probably going to regret giving him so much leeway in a future game, but he really does play

I'm really on the fence about adalia, honestly. I'm leaning more towards voting for him, especially after his suggestion that almost any death is good for town. I can understand this, from a numerical point of view. We have X number of people that make up the game, with a Y amount that are scum. With every reduction in X, we have one less person to worry about (whether they were a Y or not) that could be scum. Thus, as the pool is reduced, we're closer to finding scum because there are simply less people that could possibly be scum.

Now, I get this, and I get why adalia thinks it is so. However, I can't help but feel that suggesting so is in some way scummy. It comes off as slightly too clinical to me. While townies should be willing to take a hit for one another, it's quite another thing to suggest that them dying left and right is an actively good or helpful thing (which I feel he has done, at least a little).

For the moment, though, I don't really feel that I should use my vote. Whilst I wouldn't like us to rush into a vote near a deadline, I think there's sufficient talking points that we could still go on for a while yet. So, nothing from me on the voting front at the moment.

flubbucket: I am pretty cute. It's my button nose. Would you care to elaborate on your vote for me, or is it based on little more than me bringing up the possibility of a Jester role? If so, why not vote for HijacK for bringing up cults (even though that was in a different context, as far as I can remember)?

HijacK: I'm still not really comfortable with answering your question. Sorry. I think some of my reticent about it is still be being cross at myself for going along with yogsloth's PM chat so early last game. Unfair, I know, but still.

bler: I'm sorry to hear about your ex. I hope she gets the right sort of help and can come back to relative normality (sorry if that sounds a little mean, I don't quite know how to put it).

Here's hoping that I won't be 'editing' my above post. Anyway, I knew I had forgotten something.

I meant to say about flubbucket that:

I'm most probably going to regret giving him so much leeway in a future game, but he really does play a strange sort of game quite often. His strange game this time around is indistinguishable from other games that he has acted strangely in, or at least, it's indistinguishable from his play in other games that I've participated in.

You would agree I made that point myself, no? I said: "It's the only sample I have with him, so admittedly it's not a large N." Yes, it's 4.75 "days" worth of something that looks vaguely like substance, which is not much. Thus why I haven't been proclaiming, "Hey, everybody, I have it all worked out. Join me in the grand wagon to victory!"

Of the three I think both flub and adalia are more likely to flip town. I even agree CSP is more likely to flip town than not, but that's the nature of the beast D1. I can understand why others have voted for flub and/or adalia, but just as you seem to see my reasoning as unsatisfactory but not scummy, I see both those wagons the same way. Can't fault anyone for being on them, but they don't suit me.

On the adalia point, my daughter should be waking up any time here, so I may get cut off and the following is likely to be a bit of a mess. But the basic point is that I see adalia as guilty of two things: poor word choice, and over-generalizing.

Last game, some poor sod brought up the "D1 action which shan't be named" (heresy!). It was nigh-universal that town MUST lynch someone on day 1 for various reasons, including knowledge. JMich can, and certainly will, correct me if I'm wrong, but the view seems to be that any lynch, even a bad lynch, is better than no lynch at all. It was only after some great haranguing that someone thought to clarify that on other days it might possibly be acceptable.

So at least that group thought it beyond question that someone must die. If it's beyond question that someone must die, either a) it's a good town play to kill someone - anyone! as adalia has suggested, or b) it's not. It just strikes me as ironic that people who clearly established themselves in camp A last game are voting on adalia for reaching the logical conclusion of what they seem to believe themselves.

My view is that adalia has just stripped the gambit of any pretense or subtlety. His bigger problem I think is two-fold: one, he didn't add any nuance to acknowledge that in certain instances D2+ lynching is not the correct play. Two, he phrased it in a way that strikes many as callous, and callous must mean scummy.

From a rational perspective the word choice doesn't bother me - it's not like we're talking about lynching actual people, or drowning kittens in a bag in the river. Other than people having emotional meltdowns (ahem) there really aren't many real world consequences at play here.

I'll contradict myself a bit here, but his "all deaths are good deaths!" struck me either as someone who just likes having more data (of which I am often guilty myself - see my comments on Kryp/Cristi's deaths from last game), or perhaps someone who has decided to put a rosy "Coffin half-full" sheen on a situation (D1 lynch) that is more likely to go badly than not.

Anyway, daughter up, gotta run.

It is a bit more complicated than that. What gives us information is the reasons one votes for someone. Voting for "No Lynch" doesn't give us any information, other than the person voting believes that town will gain more with it than otherwise, which does beg the question of why does he think that. A wagon that doesn't end in a lynch can still be analyzed, but one can't be if the reasons for voting were true or scum jumping on a wagon. Similar to how a lynch with no flip would work.
So no, it's not the lynch as much as the wagon that has the information, but until you can verify the alignment of the one getting the votes, you can't make a proper analysis (well, you can, but it does have a lot of variables, and usually is too big of a mess).

Voices raised, accusations flying, fists wavering in the air. Now this was more like it! Blood! Blood! KILL KILL KILL! Oh, er, please excuse me.


_____

OFFICIAL “NEXT TIME PLEASE MAKE YOUR VOTE MORE VISUALLY OBVIOUS” VOTE COUNT

adailabooks – 5 (Leondard03, Lifthrasil, trentonlf, JMich, dedoporno)
CSPVG – 3 (flubbucket, QuadrAlien, bler144)
flubbucket – 2 (adaliabooks, Bookwyrm627)



Not voting – HijacK, CSPVG, Sage

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Closest to lynch is adaliabooks at L-2

There is not yet a deadline.
_____

Yay! I'm glad to hear it.

I gather one is supposed to fight harder when one expects to be the eventual lynch. That's what I was told anyway. Also, consider posting your guess when you hit L-2 (if you aren't just going to save it for the dead thread). Trent is already on your wagon, but someone else might get a little vote happy and cause you to come back a few hours later to find night has fallen.

Irritatingly, I find myself waffling back and forth on the game start scum list. It is too early to have anything useful (when he asked Hijack, a number of players hadn't posted even once yet), but it is a way to try and start the game without talking about drinks and butterflies. Also, I may have a benchmark for Day 1 discussions.

We all have at least some information: our personal PM/role. I'd ask if we have evidence for a N0, but the only people that would know are those that had a N0 action. I'd rather not out any investigative roles this early.

Hey, I can too reach the top shelf! Also, apparently I'm the only one on Flub's scum list.

I'm a big fan of convicting based on what people say, not based on misinterpretations of what people say. As for my alignment: please do scrutinize what I've been saying. Just don't misinterpret/misrepresent what I've been saying to try and convict me (this is part of what made me think Trent was scum last game).

What is this, beyond a list of three names?

Okay, this is the second reference to the very brief discussion on cults. I was going to let it slide once since it seemed to be dying there (with Dedo), but I don't care to let what looks like a misconception continue. Cults came up in answer to a question about "How can Mafia win without actually killing?" From there, it was asked (by me, I think) and answered that cults should be a non-issue this game, and generally a non-issue in GoG games.

By comparison: Someone speculated whether Flub was a jester, which is directly relevant to this game. I think that has also been placed on the back burner, and I propose we leave it there until evidence comes up to support it.

What makes you think Flub might be town? I've only detected one useful comment from him so far, and it was hardly definitive. I'm not say he isn't town, just that he hasn't done anything to move himself toward either camp (which defaults to moving him towards "Suspicious", in my book).

Tee hee! +1. Also, stop making sense! You're going to get some logic in my belief.

-----

And now I need to get on the road. A cousin has a wedding shower thing today. Here's hoping this post isn't too long.

Actually, yes. I see your points and your post was quite conclusively structured. I hope this also answers adalia's question: yes, I do see the points you raised and yes, we should keep an eye on CSPVG.

And this is where I don't agree. But as you said yourself, we'll have to agree to disagree at this point. D1 doesn't yield anything solid after all, so everything is more or less based on feelings.

Yes, I do agree that we do have to lynch someone on Day 1. Otherwise we'll have Day 1 all over again on Day 2. But that doesn't mean I agree to killing anyone! I am against lynching someone I feel to be town, as long as there are better options. And there always are. My preferences are: 1. people who were caught at a slip [none available at the moment]. 2. people who seem to be trying to influence the game in a way, that benefits scum or damages town. [arguably adalia or CSPVG, depending on viewpoint] 3. people behaving strangely [flubbucket] 4. Lurkers

So: lynching someone, yes. Lynching just anyone, no! We always should try to get more than just the flip out of a lynch. We should at least try to make our lynch hit a right target, or at least a target, whose loss doesn't damage town too much. Otherwise we won't win. But I think we agree on this anyhow. We only have to come to an agreement, who that 'most likely right' or 'least damaging to town' target is.

That aside: I hope your RL improves soon!

Actually I support this motion. Adalia, please share your insights. Because if you are town after all and not all scum are already on your wagon, they might decide to hammer you before you have a chance to reveal what info you have, should you wait for L-1. Also, revealing your thoughts might also reveal a bit more about how you think and where you stand. Which might be good for town, if you are town. Unless you want to be lynched for some reason (I can think of some, both pro- and anti-town reasons).

You've probably just missed my above post, reveal is coming tonight when I get in and get a chance. If you would remove your vote in the meantime we can be reasonably sure scum can't quick hammer (unless they take the last three spots [assuming there are that many left not on my wagon] and really give themselves away)

Lots of good points/questions raised in mult posts but only have a few minutes. So I'll pick up just this one:

To me his play reads as a variant on Kryp's play from last game, but also your own (which I copied, albeit poorly, and made it hard to have credibility when I needed it on D3): seeking the balance of being just scummy enough to avoid an NK, without going so far that you end up the D1 lynch.

He has to know that he can't play this way all game long, regardless of whether he's town/scum precisely because he's on everybody's radar as acting odd, and in terms of day action I think he'll have a shorter rope going forward, which is a risky ploy if one is scum.

In terms of night action I think he also has a nice WIFOM going, which I view as a plus. Obvs. D1 doesn't work if everyone plays the way he's playing, but in terms of one person playing that way I don't have an issue.

But TLDR, his tack means he's going to have some extra attention all game regardless of how his play shifts on D2 and beyond. That just seems a risky strat if he's scum. That said, Yog embraced a counter-intuitive strat last game, but it took a hell of a lot of panache, and some luck, to pull off.

Out for a few hours.

Yes. I did miss that post and couldn't reply to it right away due to the stupid 10-min rule. Yes, if we were in a situation where one has no way to distinguish the scumminess or townieness of anyone, it would be OK to lynch anyone. But such a situation is very unlikely, since all talking on Day one will lead to some opinions forming. So the scenario where it is OK to lynch anyone randomly is academic. You explained your motivation well, however, even if I don't agree with it.

So I am willing to cut you some slack, especially since we aren't on a deadline yet and I don't want to risk a speed-lynch.

unvote adaliabooks

I'm looking forward to your reveal. But depending on what it is, how towny or scummy it sounds and on whether a deadline appears, I might put back my vote on you later.

Because it's an extreme case. There is a difference at making sure there is a lynch by going for the best target there is and going for whoever just for the sake of it.

I'm going on night #2 of the festival, so I will can cover that for you (I'm not backing off, but I do want make sure we aren't pressured by time or flash votes).

unvote adaliabooks