You know what, I don't care anymore. Make of it whatever you want.

That's the main thing I don't like in this game - depending on how seats are stacked and how things resolve during the first half of the game some of the later players may end up shunned for the sake of the players for whom at least some information is already available. And in a situation where we are one L away from winning and fascists are 2 F behind of their simpler win condition they are likely desperate to get elected and do their best to even things up. If you're L you are already ahead and should be playing with your team - we already have a few players who have decent reputations (some of them may be Fs playing along but their reputations are still better than untested players). You chose neither one of them but a player who has been untested just like yourself. Both of you have mentioned the argument "let's be kind and give someone else a chance, too" which feels like F desperation to me. Sorry but that's what it feels and looks like.

Unless im missing some special rule to the game, I feel that it would be wiser for me to nom you over dedo

I nom ZFR
GR nom dedo(potentially)
Joppo is passed over(if we follow Scene's gameplan)
GR nom you

if I nom dedo:

I nom Dedo
GR nom ZFR(not saying guaranteed, but explanation sake)
Joppo Skipped
Dedo now cannot nominate you because of term-lock


No granted if either GR or I's govt fails or joppo elected that throws this out the window...but if we are trying to make sure dedo can nominate you AND we are following lockstep with Scene's(save for possibly giving my govt a chance) it would make more sense for me to nominate you over Dedo.

Of course if my govt gets denied just because im on the naughty list then GR nominates dedo and this whole post was moot.

We're not going through all those people. Just one of you/Cadaver/GR (my preference: GR), then skip to dedo.

That's how I'm voting at least.

I am okay with that plan, tho I would prefer not being skipped but since it's still lots of people I consider liberal getting the govt positions I sadly accept not being president again.

Let me propose a question here, tho. For this exercise let's assume that GR is a fascist and you and Dedo are liberals.

We know that the 12-card deck currently has 2 L. Enough cards for 4 governments and barring a topdeck every card will be seen by a president.
So let's assume:
- GR gets FFF. It is not a problem: his being fascist doesn't affect the outcome in any way.
- GR gets FLL: It is not a problem as long as his chancellor is liberal.At least one L passes and is enacted.
- GR gets FFL: Fascist GR obviously buries the L. We are forced to hunt for the other L in future presidencies. This is where it gets tricky.

You and Dedo are both reaching presidency, of course, but that's only 2 out of 3 governments. What if the last L is given to the other president?
I think we should discuss who else we trust to get that other presidency. Possible candidates include me, Pooka, Joe, up to Scene. Who should we trust most in this group?

===

One other thing we should be careful of as we get to this final stretch: since it's expected that we're going to see a few F cards enacted by now, we will soon need to be careful of the possibility anyone uber-liberal being hitler. It worries me; if hitler isn't being considered for office already I expect the fascists would be peddling more of one specific player. I'm not seeing it and that troubles me somewhat. In that front the one concern I have is if hitler is ZFR. Dedo I investigated, I know he is matter-of-fact liberal.

Arguments against my own theory: assuming hitler!ZFR, his soon being chancellor doesn't help him much right now. He'd have to conflict (Dedo, probably) and that would be almost a defeat sentence to the fascist team. He also did not fight Dedo over being chancellor in the next election. (Counter-argument: this next presidency is GR's and he might be fascist, so in that case no need to be there to take down the L.)

I've voted nein to get to dedo by shortest route. I don't feel great about it though.

Cadaver feels like a player on his own which, contrary to dedo's take, suggests liberal to me. Which is vaguely concerning.

But I don't know what we can do about it really. This is a horrible game.

Once again, I think SH is more suited for realtime play (online or face to face), not so much for a forum game. I feel terrible just skipping like this (in a realtime game I'd skip too, but there it just takes 15 minutes, after which we play again).

Yeah, I remember my only other game - I was F then (not Hitler I think) and most of us Fs happened to be tightly stacked near the end of the ordering. By the time our turns started to come we were already not welcome in elections. I think I was the only one who managed to get into a government somehow and I managed to pass a single F and that was that. It wasn't fun for us (well, for me at least but I don't think the rest had that much more fun). I assume it's not fun for some people here as well. Not my favorite game but I have never played outside of the forum environment so I can't say how it fun it is when it's played in the intended way. Ironic considering I kickstarted the original back in the day.

All that being said, I still prefer to win at the end and not lose because we started playing against the currently available information and then Cadaver (this isn't meant as a jab at Cadaver, I'm just trying to make a point and this feels like the best way to make it right now) comes out and says "Ha! You fools, you fell for my sad-eyes trick!".

It's funny that you call me active when I finally had a post after two days of inactivity due to the weekend. But yeah I guess every other day I'm active enough.

And being nice comes naturally for a chaotic-good liberal player like me. :-)

"Words are wind it's the choices that define who you are."

For all I know experienced Fascists could have worked together and gained enough *pro-Liberal* reputation acting as good Liberals. I remember how one such person converted FLL into LL, no worries. The man who created a situation of pre-chaos situation, that man gets your votes? Denying me of my right to test my willingness and serve the community you are killing the basics of Liberty!

Everyone is saying how Liberals are winning so much, even more reason to test both unknowns. You treated me like a criminal even though I have not done anything wrong. All I see is Fascist regime working its way under the name of "Democracy".

Free people of the Kingdom, give me your votes and I promise you the following:

1. I will lead my people by heart and by mind
2. I will defend your freedoms above anything else
3. I will guard and protect our Law system.

Together we stand against Chaos! Free people unite and we'll win!

Dear Dedo, let's get a few things straight. I had an issue with my time previously which I stated in advance. This is my first game and to be honest it's boring as hell. I truthfully and will all my heart dislike politics. The only way to fight something you despise is to laugh at it. What I'm doing as that I'm having my part of fun. I indeed a bit (like a lot) stressed about people dying on all sides for [insert interest].

What I told about GR is true, I think he is a nice guy and he didn't deserve a denial from people who have the guts to call themselves "Liberals".

What I told about myself is also true - Yeah I want to play, because this is game and I haven't played yet. It's only fair, gosh!

Do I truly care if I get a seat or not? Not all, for all I care I can auto-vote instruct Micro and be done with it any second now.

And one last thing. Scene is acting strange, only the blind can pretend it was not obvious. Open your eyes, what you call Liberty becomes Slavery.

I'm well aware of that. At no point I've accused you in being absent by intent. That doesn't change the fact that the less time you are able to invest in the game the less information is available about your person. I have nothing against Cadaver the person that's just how things are.

It's pretty much the same thing - it's not that he's deserving denial. It's just that we have enough others who have so far done things to push the Liberal agenda further. Having such option makes it unreasonable not wanting to have at least one such player in each government if not more. As a matter of fact a lot of people have already stated they are perfectly fine with his presidency as long as he pick one of the people with better reputations. I don't see a problem for him.

This I agree with. For me Scene is still neutral at best.

I'm skipping some of your other writings as you stated you don't like politics which suggests they are role-playing, which is something that doesn't appeal to me personally so I won't bother with it.

I'm sorry you are bored; I will try to pick up the pace of the game again.

10 player is worse for this but SH always has positions which requires players to be observers. While not as an active role it's equally important for Liberals in these positions to figure out who to trust and who not to trust. Fascists in turn need to cause distrust between Liberals

Right. Yeah, that kind of sucks, though. ZFR is likely correct that is less felt by people when the games are 10-15 minutes long but when that much time is invested in the game it sucks to be side-lined regardless of one's alignment (it's probably worse for Fs as they likely feel helpless to dig their way in).

Anyway, it is what it is. Everyone signed up for the same game and was subjected to the same rules and possibility of ending up in such situation.