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darthvictorbr: And note that Etherealnessis amazing to rebuff/heal the party while sorc don't have more his best "retreat and rebuff" spell(aka time stop)
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Valkinaz: No, sorc is pretty ok with his insanely high buffed AC, save or die spells and enhanced asoc metamagic. Need to retreat - throw quicken invisibility. Damn, invisibility even make ass out of Lorne. Don't call class weak if you don't know how to play with it

Also lumping together all divine casters is just stupid. Flavored soul and Clerics have different spell lists compared to Druid and shaman, with shaman pretty much being one of the lamest divine casters. You don't lump paladin and bard in the same heap, so please, keep it comparable
A lot of enemies can "detect invisible characters", also, sorc/wiz even in nwn1 are weak compared to iwd. Horrid Wilting inflict magical damage instead of negative energy, can summon a Efreeti at tier 7, Protection From The Elements gives a insane elemental resistance, summon Wyvern ( Wyvern Call ), can animate 6 undead at once with Animate Dead or six with Shadow Monsters(tier 4 spell), stoneskin is much more powerful... You can see the arcane spells at page 137 http://www.beamdog.com/files/iwdee/iwdee_manual2.pdf

IMHO the unique fault of nwn1 is that a lot of stuff is "hard coded", turning very hard to create for example custom "spellbooks" and some classes that are far different from pnp. Like Pale Master don`t giving CL, Arcane Archer that can only imbue fire, the Conjurer specialized Wizard is useless due the one summon limit and the fact that the opposite school had the best spells and spells that ignore SR in pnp don`t ignore in nwn1... I play this games because i don`t have more a group to play PnP, so i don`t understand why the idea of using a mod that someone dedicated a lot of time and effort to develop is viewed as a "heresy" here. I have 49 mos in Skyrim, some add sun damage to vampires, some locations, some new spells, some new enemies, etc and 27 on Morrowind. Mods increase a lot of replay value and make any game better. As if Obsidian is a "god" and if they made alterations into some spells, races, etc, nobody can prefer the dnd way.
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darthvictorbr: I play this games because i don`t have more a group to play PnP, so i don`t understand why the idea of using a mod that someone dedicated a lot of time and effort to develop is viewed as a "heresy" here.
Maybe because you play not one mod but a merged pick of several noncompatible mods some of which are severely outdated? Nobody is saying that you should not play with mods. But if you play mod which is known to have bugs and cry about this bugs - it's just look stupid. I have a ton of mods on nwn2. TonyK, Kaedrin, fixes, enhanced heads, enhanced textures, annoying effects removal and my game is stable and buggy free
Post edited February 07, 2018 by Valkinaz
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darthvictorbr: I play this games because i don`t have more a group to play PnP, so i don`t understand why the idea of using a mod that someone dedicated a lot of time and effort to develop is viewed as a "heresy" here.
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Valkinaz: Maybe because you play not one mod but a merged pick of several noncompatible mods some of which are severely outdated? Nobody is saying that you should not play with mods. But if you play mod which is known to have bugs and cry about this bugs - it's just look stupid. I have a ton of mods on nwn2. TonyK, Kaedrin, fixes, enhanced heads, enhanced textures, annoying effects removal and my game is stable and buggy free
1 - Ask for help with mods is not "cry", a lot of people ask questions here
2 - The IA of unmoded nwn2 is terrible see pg 1 of this thread, the majority plays on puppet mode
[i]
I've played a lot of role playing games in my time. But I don't think I've ever dealt with an AI quite as moronic as what has been made available to us in NWN2. I've gotten into Neverwinter, and things have been fine until then. But once I went into the warehouse the previously bearable AI of the party members just disintegrated into chaos. I've got party members that won't attack even when they are being attacked themselves. I've got party members who despite orders to defend me, will simply stand there as I'm beat senseless." [/i]
source https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=151800
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Kordac: I normally play with puppet mode on and just manually control the NPCs like I would in the infinity engine games.
3 - The solution was simple install more mods(to modify the IA)
4 - Nobody in mod page is saying that this mods are incompatible
5 - I had problems of party members stoping following the MC even in my first playthrough without any mod.
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darthvictorbr: 5 - I had problems of party members stoping following the MC even in my first playthrough without any mod.
You probably screwed up their behavior tab. I have almost certainly played a lot more NWN2, all of it with vanilla AI, and I have never seen the AI characters stop following the leader, unless I place them in Puppet mode.

You can overload them so the move so slow, they get left behind, or they can get stuck with pathfinding issues and left behind, but they don't stop following otherwise.

And again, you have full party control in NWN2. So if the AI is doing something dumb, you can put them in puppet mode, and override the AI.
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darthvictorbr: 5 - I had problems of party members stoping following the MC even in my first playthrough without any mod.
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PeterScott: You probably screwed up their behavior tab. I have almost certainly played a lot more NWN2, all of it with vanilla AI, and I have never seen the AI characters stop following the leader, unless I place them in Puppet mode.

You can overload them so the move so slow, they get left behind, or they can get stuck with pathfinding issues and left behind, but they don't stop following otherwise.

And again, you have full party control in NWN2. So if the AI is doing something dumb, you can put them in puppet mode, and override the AI.
You are right, but a mod fixed the IA problem ( https://neverwintervault.org/rolovault/projects/nwn2/nwn2hakpaksoriginal/141/index18.html ), with this mod, the IA becomes good, not good as DA:O IA, but very good. I don`t like "micromanagement"(give the same order over and over again each 10 seconds to each party member).

PS > Only because i an saying that a game isn`t 100% perfect, doesn`t means that i hate or dislike the game. NWN2 still a great game and the OC is Amazing, i loved the crossroad keep management and still searching a way to have the same experience in nwn1.
Post edited February 07, 2018 by darthvictorbr
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darthvictorbr: 5 - I had problems of party members stoping following the MC even in my first playthrough without any mod.
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PeterScott: You probably screwed up their behavior tab. I have almost certainly played a lot more NWN2, all of it with vanilla AI, and I have never seen the AI characters stop following the leader, unless I place them in Puppet mode.

You can overload them so the move so slow, they get left behind, or they can get stuck with pathfinding issues and left behind, but they don't stop following otherwise.

And again, you have full party control in NWN2. So if the AI is doing something dumb, you can put them in puppet mode, and override the AI.
Actually its pretty old bug. At least it was mentioned in game magazine I read when game originally came out. After Shandra dies, your party become permanently enhanced by one and this last character sometimes becomes broken. Its actually become a bit worse in final fight when you got all partymembers at once and actually everyone past first free slots may catch this bug. Thus I play in puppet mode with turn base mode from Tony K xD
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darthvictorbr: sorc/wiz even in nwn1 are weak compared to iwd. Horrid Wilting inflict magical damage instead of negative energy, can summon a Efreeti at tier 7, Protection From The Elements gives a insane elemental resistance, summon Wyvern ( Wyvern Call ), can animate 6 undead at once with Animate Dead or six with Shadow Monsters(tier 4 spell), stoneskin is much more powerful...[/url]
Wait a minute... I don't think we should be comparing the spell power in IWD or Baldur's Gate with either of the NWN games. Those games used a different edition of D&D rules. Personally, I miss the Chromatic Orb spell from 2nd edition, which I used often in BG and IWD, but I didn't learn until later that the spell was more powerful than it should have been in those games, since it was lacking the monetary cost it was supposed to have from pen & paper, which would have made me use it more sparingly. Stoneskin is also supposed to have costs, to balance its high power.

But we don't have Chromatic Orb at all in 3.5, which NWN2 uses, and there are some other 2nd edition spells that aren't in 3.5 either, or which work differently from their old versions. 3.5 summons, for instance, will allow you to summon multiple creatures, yes, but with the disadvantage that they have to be lower level if you want more of them. I can see why someone would still want that option, but I can also see why they decided to omit the option.

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darthvictorbr: The IA of unmoded nwn2 is terrible see pg 1 of this thread, the majority plays on puppet mode
Maybe the majority who have spoken in this thread play in puppet mode, but who knows about the majority who play the game. I don't play in puppet mode, myself. I micromanage some characters, sure, and sometimes use voice commands to keep my party from running off to attack something, but I leave the AI on, and let some of the characters do as they please without micromanaging. There have been a few weird or funny AI choices over a long time, sometimes annoying ones, but not enough for me to need to install Tony_K or use puppet mode.
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touched: (...)
Wait a minute... I don't think we should be comparing the spell power in IWD or Baldur's Gate with either of the NWN games. Those games used a different edition of D&D rules. Personally, I miss the Chromatic Orb spell from 2nd edition, which I used often in BG and IWD, but I didn't learn until later that the spell was more powerful than it should have been in those games, since it was lacking the monetary cost it was supposed to have from pen & paper, which would have made me use it more sparingly. Stoneskin is also supposed to have costs, to balance its high power.
(...)
I know that they uses two different editions, but only mentioned iwd because some people here thinks that arcane is "op" in nwn1. And Stoneskin in pnp had a very expensive materiel component to compensate the defense given.

About summons, i agree. In nwn1 doesn't matter if you summoned an dragon with an epic spell or if you summoned a skeleton. You can only have one summon. In D&D rules, is your HD that limits summons and if i remember correctly some feats can increase you max HD summon. A lv 30 Dread Necromancer in 3.5 with proper feats can animate up to 300 HD worth of creatures. This is literally a small undead army created and under control of a single "magician"

Anyway thanks for the help
Post edited February 08, 2018 by darthvictorbr