You know, there once was a game...let's call it ...hmmm...Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri.
That game got on the market on Februrary 1999.
Seemingly completed.

Then this happened: (Wikipaedia-Quote)

"A month after SMAC's February 1999 release, the Firaxis team began work on the expansion pack, Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire (SMAX)."

Uuuhh,...those greedy devils, dared to work on more content for the game, they only delivered to the public a mere month before. And furthermore...they expected the people, that already paid for their game...to pay extra (!) for that plus on content!!!...shocking!
Oh, those monsters! How we all loathe them.

Horrible story so far, hmm...? But it continues...

In June 2011 (= over twelve years after its initial release), Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri got released on GoG.com...*and now, please take a seat...grab the armrests...here comes the final blow*: Alien Crossfire was not included!

But shhh...be still, my poor heart...the story has a nice ending...in December 2012, Alien Crossfire got added to Alpha Centauri...for free!

Now, you might wonder: "What is it, this guy tries to tell me?"

Well, what I want to tell you, my friend is...: there is no difference between a real classic like SMAC and a more mediocre new game like Omerta, when it comes to content, that gets delivered after release of the main game.
(and we both really don't want to follow the route named: but THEN there was real content, not just some crappy gun, etc.)

I personally wonder what would have been the reaction of the GoG-community, if GoG had the Alien Crossfire Expansion sold seperate, instead of adding it for free? Interesting thought, hm?

But...there is a huuuge difference between a classic game from 1999 and a (be it classy or crappy) game from 2013...nowadays, we all know, there will be some sort of DLC. Because that's the way, the story goes - nowadays.

Alien Crossfire got added for free - 13 years after the main game got released! (I don't count the retail bundles, that EA sold some years ago - we're talking about GoG, after all)

Lucky GoG customers...they got something for free, that the early buyers a dozen years before, had to pay extra for.

You want the DLC for Omerta (or any other 'new' game here on GoG) for free?
Just wait some ten years.

Maybe we should start a internet-wide petition, and tell Firaxis Games, EA and Sid Meier they should be ashamed, because they were not fair to us...back in 1999. I'm sure, they WILL laugh.

Exactly.
And why exactly didn't YOU wait with your purchase of Omerta?

So, GoG should set a price for all possible DLC, they (and probably not even the developers) know nothing about, at the time of release of the main game?
And - much more important - ALL customers should be forced to buy a game at a price that includes all possible DLC, independent of what exactly these DLC might be, and wheter they want these DLC, or not?
I see a shitstorm incoming.

Alternative proposal: Just wait some ten years with your purchase.

Hahaha,...that's a good one! In the age of DLC, you didn't see a DLC coming? Welcome to the real world! I guess, if you're a quick learner, you'll not repeat that mistake. Now,...are you a quick learner?

You're a guiding light for all of us...believe me.

Edit: typo

The same arguments don't really apply to DLC and DRM.

1. GOG starts selling newer games with DLC (still DRM free) = Great, because there are no other sites that consistently sell new-ish games DRM-free (with DLC, or not). This means more options to people, mainly those who like to buy DRM-free games.

2. GOG starts selling games with DRM = What's the point, as there are already many other digital stores doing the same: Steam, EA Origin, UPlay, GamersGate etc. etc. etc.? This move wouldn't really offer anything new to PC gamers' purchasing options.

Nevertheless, if GOG sometime felt they'd have to start selling games with DRM in order to stay afloat, I guess man's gotta do what man's gotta do. But at that point, why wouldn't people just buy those same games from e.g. Steam instead? See point #2 above. That's why I personally feel GOG doesn't seem to be keen on starting sell games with DRM, it is not like such a move would make the people who buy their new DRM games from elsewhere come here instead.

You left, except that you never did? Just like SimonG? :D

Frankly, you two remind me of these DLC whiners. After all, you two were whining a lot how GOG should not sell newer games, but only old games.

I always thought I'd have a lot in common with people that played older games. So much to talk about! But when I see threads like this and see all the 1 star reviews for the DLC, I realize I have nothing in common with people that play older games. Look at them, they act the same as a child playing a new Call of Duty game. Oh well.


Other sites sell DRM free games as well, even before GOG was around. Amazon had some DRM free ones before GOG for example. Several publishers sell DRM free games on their own internet sites, like Strategy First for example. So on and so forth. Not that I'm complaining or anything, I never liked DRM.

Regarding your comment about how bad the game is. Why make that comment? You don't speak for everyone.

I don't really get all the bitching and complaining about drm free dlc on sale. I think part of the problem might be that this particular dlc is a complete rip off (so little content for nearly the price of a whole game on gog.com). However, think about cases like Skyrim where they could potentially sell the base game drm free and then sell worth while drm free dlc/expansions seperately. We still get a potentially great game drm free with all the extras.

I am not an advocate for dlc... I really hate it, but it is up to the consumer to decide if it is worth purchasing or not. I personally think it is great to see this dlc expansion getting one star since there is little to no value in it.

At the end of the day, I would rather have the option of a FULL game rather than just part of it. I also trust that GOG.com has the gamer's best interests at heart.

(Emphasis mine)

GOG has already chosen to release inferior products. The Book Of Unwritten Tales for example has a Linux version that you can get on Steam. But if you buy the game from GOG then you don't get that Linux version. So your argument is equally applicable for GOG releasing Linux versions. I agree with your argument for both cases. Others may disagree for both cases. But so far GOG has chosen to be inconsistent and only apply your argument for DLC. I hope that will change.

See, I just assumed he meant the community. I wholeheartedly agree. Aside from some helpful and compassionate individuals on the forums, there seem to be a lot of...entitled folks and people riding some mighty tall horses.

There aren't many sites that consistently sell DRM-free games from several publishers, even promoting DRM-free gaming. GOG, DotEmu, ...?

Amazon does not sell worldwide. The only way e.g. I could buy games from their digital store is apparently to give some fake address. For some reason, I rather not lie about something like that, in case I need to contact their support etc. And I am unsure if they are even selling DRM-free games consistently anymore, or if it was merely some experiment from their end. They seem to sell anything from retail games to Steam keys.

Publishers sell only their own games, so it is understandable if people prefer buying their DRM-free games from few places rather than dozens of developer sites.

Plus. Strategy First's support and downloading from them sucks. You can read my experience with them from this discussion, when I bought 30 DRM-free games from them:

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/sfi_super_bundle_29_games_rrp_41471_with_code_999_half_of_all_sales_go_to_breast_cancer_rese/post13

I also bought the Penumbra Trilogy + Amnesia DRM-free directly from Frictional Games homepage, I don't recall any issues there.

And then I bought two copies of Minecraft, as gifts. I think the Mojang site claims they are DRM-free, but I think they are not, ie. after you have downloaded the game, you do have to connect at least once more to Mojang servers in order to play the game. After that you can apparently set it to offline mode. So it is one time authentication, but not DRM-free.

GamersGate says they sell DRM-free games, but their idea of DRM-free seems to be similar to Mojang's, ie. it is "DRM-free" after you have authenticated your game once (per installation). There is a workaround for this though, ie. copy the installation files somewhere to a safe place right after the download.

Steam also sells some games that can be played without the client and can be hence called DRM-free, but as with GamersGate, this is an unsupported workaround to bypass the DRM.

HumbleBundles are normally DRM-free, but they are not a real digital store in my mind, as they seem to sell only certain games for a limited amount of time at a time.

It looks like DLC and DRM cannot be substituted, but point one goes in other way (in my opinion):

1. GOG starts selling newer games with DLC, both DRM-free, but the DLC has store binding, i.e. you can only use it with the base version of the game bought from GOG. This is already the same thing other stores like Steam do: if you want to buy and use a DLC from Steam, you need to have bought the base game also on Steam.
So in my eyes, you can replace DRM by DLC and it goes the same way.

I don't say that GOG should not release DLCs. They are important for the matter that people should have the chance to buy them when they already bought the original game here. Also it's the only way, because DLC has inherent store binding (whereas earlier expansion sets didn't have it). Another way for the DD stores to make money, but now it is as it is, can't do anything. :-( GOG has to use this business model, but maybe not for all times.

Hopefully GOG will release additional gold versions that include a game with all DLCs after some time. Also I hope that the DLCs will be integrated tighter to a base gamecard and do not clutter the main catalogue like it's already on Steam and GamersGate. That would destroy the fine, clear and hand-picked list of games.

For macroscopic objects, time generally flows in one direction.

That doesn't really have anything to do with the DRM, it just means the Steam and GOG versions of the game are incompatible with each other. Just like many US and EU versions of retail PC games were incompatible, ie. you couldn't use EU updates or expansion packs on the US version, and vice versa.

Which expansion sets do you mean? In GOG, retail, or what?

For the first, I think the blue said that maybe they will. It is up to the publisher if they will in the end offer a separate gold/GOTY version as well, and GOG could include also it. Too bad that in itself also adds to clutter, ie. there will be overlapping bundles and such also on GOG, just like on other stores. But I guess there is no meaningful way around that.

I would prefer if GOG could make that bundling itself, ie. when all the Omerta DLCs have been released, GOG can make a special bundle of it themselves, with a special price if they want. Either way, I also belong to those who probably wait anyway until all the DLCs have appeared, in order to buy them all in one swoop.

For the second, I agree. The DLCs that require some base game should be somehow clearly separated from the rest of the games.

There goes Roman5 with his big balls again. You are usually always the first to speak up. I respect you for that. Not many people have such big balls nowadays. Most people nowadays have raisin sized balls. If every gamer turned into a Roman5 clone, there would be a 2nd golden age of gaming because then every gamer would stand up against this kind of DLC bullshit. The stuff in this $5 DLC would be included into the game for free considering the price of this Omerta game and how empty the game is if the people behind this game weren't looking to rip off people. So obviously they are just looking to screw people who have a weakness for gangster games out of their hard earned money. I also find it disturbing that GOG supports this(I still love GOG though but if they stop being DRM free, the love will go away).

People wanted GOG to release new games DRM free, they've done that, however DLC & micro transactions are a major factor in the games industry at the moment. GOG can't offer the complete version from the get go when it's not even available. OK maybe GOG could incorporate the cost of a 'season pass' into the base price but dlc can be sub par, not everyone will want it and it'll raise the base price beyond what many will be willing to pay. At least this way you still have the option.


GOG's problem is that their mantra for complete versions etc was made when they exclusively sold OLD games and, for me, so long as they strive to maintain that for old game releases I will be happy. If there's issues like there has been with addons for games like Alpha Centauri etc I expect them to fight to get the rights and release it for free (or put the price up to $9.99 and give it to free for those who already own it, if the Publisher is an arse). So far they've done this and Alpha Centauri along with some others are now complete and at no extra cost which deserves some real praise on GOG's part.

Sorry but I just don't feel this is a big issue and that is my view which I too am entitled too. I'm not as bad as I think you are painting me to be here either. It's not like I posted something to the effect of "you are a bunch of whining sissy baby assholes and need to get over yourselves." Now, if I had said something like that I could see you taking some issue with me. I just said it's silly to get worked up over it and it is too. Skip DLC if you don't want it. Why does it need to even be a problem?

Don't you guys want GOG to be successful? You can't sell new games that have DLC without offering the DLC too and you can't make publishers bundle new releases with new DLC that is separate everywhere else just for you. GOG is giving everyone choice. Make yours and don't worry about everyone else's is I guess the point I am trying to make.

As for bringing DRM into what I had to say, please don't. Let's stay on topic.

Sure there is, convert the base game package to complete (rename it and include the add-ons in the main installer), remove the add-on bundles (either from sale or completely), and inform the customers of the change (at least if the add-on packages are removed completely and thus gone from the shelves).

Yes, that'd mean that everyone who only bought the base game get the add-ons for free, and GOG will miss a few sales of the add-on that would have happened had the package not been updated, but it's the single most customer-friendly way to do it (all the while keeping the catalogue as lean as possible).

Exactly and well said.