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General discussion (archive)New Gaming Options: Follow-up Survey(519 posts)(519 posts)
(519 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 15, 2013
We (still) want to hear from you!

We recently asked you guys for feedback based on some potential games that we may be able to sign in the future. The results were pretty clear--and we will be sharing them with you all soon--but we did want to ask you a single follow-up question with an actual real-world game example. One of the games that we would like to add to our catalog is Planetary Annihilation. This is an RTS with many modern gaming features, and we figured we'd use it as our test example.

<iframe width="590" height="332" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Xpze54xgqtg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Planetary Annihilation is distinctive for the following:

- Multiplayer and skirmish focused gameplay; there is no story-based single-player campaign, but AI skirmish matches provide a great single player experience.
- Optional persistent online features such as scoreboards, social features, achievements, and the online multiplayer campaign - a persistent galaxy-wide war; an account with the developer's online service is required in order to use these features.
- No activation, unique codes, or third-party accounts are required for single-player play or, LAN/direct connection multiplayer.
- A unique key is required for Internet multiplayer, and an account with the developer's service is only required for the persistent online features.

Now, that you know about the game's specifics, here's our question:
Post edited April 15, 2013 by G-Doc
Posted April 16, 2013
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FraggingBard: Back in 2012 when people were asking for NWN keys we were all told to go to support until NWN was be added to the automated system. That was in... Mid '12? A while ago now, and it's still not up.
The automatic system was added with HoMaM V. All games bought after that date should have the keys automatically added.
I'm not sure if I've bought a game that needed key and was released here before that date since, thus I can't verify it. Evidence though suggests that the key will be automaticaly given.
Posted April 16, 2013
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SylvesterInk: I've been following this game very closely since it was announced, and there is one thing I'd like to clarify. It's not just LAN multiplayer that would be unencumbered. You would be able to play the game online on custom servers without the need for a key. If UberNet ever died for some reason, there would be nothing stopping the modding community from implementing all the features that a key would get you. (In fact, they did just this with the Forged Alliance Forever client for Supreme Commander once Gas Powered Games ended their support.)
The only reason there's a key in the first place is that Uber is paying for the UberNet servers, and they want to prevent any server overload by those who will undoubtedly pirate the game.
Thank you, that specific information was very helpful in tipping my vote to "Yes" for this particular game.
Posted April 16, 2013
I voted "yes" since the game can be played without any activation-sounds like it's sort of optional. I think it should be clear when you buy it though how all that works.

The game itself looks very interesting-looks like a lot of intriguing new ideas. If it had a strong single player I'd buy it, but I don't play multiplayer much at all, and never for RTS.
Posted April 16, 2013
There are not enough informations to decide:
Is it a multiplayer game? (or a solo with multiplay features?)
Can we multi-play it without the official server? and are the scores, achievments only seen on this server?
I mean: if the official servers is closed, can we still play the full game? (Is it built as a MMO game?)
...

So, a 'Maybe' button is missing in your question, GOG.
Post edited April 16, 2013 by ERISS
Posted April 16, 2013
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ERISS: Is it a multiplayer game? (or a solo with multiplay features?)
Battles between forces, can play player versus player on LAN, direct connect or through official matchmaking. Can also be played Player vs AI, either in single skirmishes on over a Galactic Conquest. The official servers will hold a pvp Galactic Conquest as well.

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ERISS: Can we multi-play it without the official server?
LAN and Direct Connect

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ERISS: and are the scores, achievments only seen on this server?
Seems so

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ERISS: I mean: if the official servers is closed, can we still play the full game?
Yes

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ERISS: (Is it built as a MMO game?)
No
Posted April 16, 2013
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GregT_314: I voted no.

My expectation is that all GOG games will be eventually available to their purchasers in a format that will continue to deliver its core functionality if the developer and publisher go out of business tomorrow. This is (part of) what "no DRM" means.

The core functionality of this game is competitive multiplayer over the internet. That functionality is dependent on the publisher/developer, both to authenticate a unique key and to host servers for significant aspects of the gameplay. The fact that there is single-player and LAN content is an ancillary feature; you would not expect the game to sell strongly if it only included those single and LAN elements.

It therefore does not fit the current GOG brand.
GOG's welcome to sell this stuff, but it should do so through a clear and distinctive sub-brand or sub-site, not mix it in with the regular catalogue. Clarity about what I'm buying is a key reason I buy from GOG instead of Steam where the option exists.

Another reason to incentivise developers to build their games in such a way that they can be sold on GOG. There is no reason this game couldn't have been developed, with all the same features, in a GOG friendly way.
Well, I see a possibility in your arguments. GOG have thought about a "different" online shop to sell these new games types? Or a sub-site or section... This could be satisfying for both DRM matter sides. (BTW, I answered yes to the pool and posted some pages back).
Posted April 16, 2013
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JMich: I'm not sure if I've bought a game that needed key and was released here before that date since, thus I can't verify it. Evidence though suggests that the key will be automaticaly given.
Not really. All games RELEASED after HOMM5 have automatic key handling. Older ones don't. If you bought NWN1 today, you'd still have to ask for a key.

And I can't understand why.
Posted April 16, 2013
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RoseLegion: Loved the MOO series (I even figured out how to play MOO3 well enough to enjoy it) but even tho skirmish can be fun it's very much a matter of personal taste and a story shouldn't be discounted. It was the story that made D1 so much better than it's successors (and I know lots of people who feel that it is). It's story that motivates my play time in SC & SC 2 (even tho I've played the ladder in both quite a bit) and most of my friends who play agree.
Mavor is right in that I didn't do all my play time in one solid block with the SP driven games, but I've played the SP aspects of SC 1 & 2, C&C (all of them), D 1 & 2, etc. far and away more than multiplayer focused plays.
Mavor is free to make his development choices since he's being up front about them and maybe they're right for his game, but most of the 'research' on these subjects I've seen is more than slightly biased in their sample groups and methodologies. After all there's research out there which says PC gaming is dead and no one wants either single player games or story driven games anymore, that in essence ME3 is now the definition of an "RPG" for modern gaming. All of which is clearly tripe, just ask DoubleBear, enXile, Obsidian, etc etc

Point being, "single player campaign" is not only a pretty subjective category but also a matter of personal preference, as the dispute above about FTL illustrates nicely.

My (unsolicited) 0.02
Legion
I agree with you that a campaign with a well crafted story will add something to almost any game.

However, from there to "A game doesn't really support single player unless it has a campaign" is a bit too extreme for me.

Then, what do you do with games that have great overall gameplay with a flexible skirmish mode, but a lousy campaign? Call them games bad single player games?

I find that for most games which are more confrontational than cooperative, the line between single player and multi-player for skirmishes really about substituting the players for AIs or vice versa.

If the game let's you play with a decent AI, then it supports single player.

Traditionally, a game can be single-player with a campaign or flexible skirmish mode with AI opponent support (or ideally, both), but as long as it has at least one of those elements, then it supports single player and the other element is optional.

I'd give the developers some latitude here.

I don't complain about all the single player games with a campaign, but no skirmish that are out there and I don't call them fake single player, because they don't have skirmish.

So it irritates for a little when I see the reverse happening: someone calling a game fake single player, because it supports skirmishes with AI, but no campaign.
Post edited April 16, 2013 by Magnitus
Posted April 16, 2013
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mrkgnao: The survey question is clearly phrased so it is very difficult to answer "no".
It is phrased so that the black and white "all or nothing" mentality prevalent in many gamers nowadays understands that voting "no" to anything that could potentially maybe turn into a slippery slope means that plenty of great games with acceptable but borderline DRM business model (you register to use their server, you can still play SP and LAN) will get kicked out of GOG because of the "I voted no because they will sell out to EA and Blizzard if we vote yes!" attitude.

Yes it prevents SimCity and Diablo III from showing up here but it also prevents plenty of other games that certainly don't deserve the same treatment.
Post edited April 16, 2013 by blueskirt42
Posted April 16, 2013
Because of this I'll still buy my old games from GOG but not the new ones.
Posted April 16, 2013
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ERISS: Is it a multiplayer game? (or a solo with multiplay features?)
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JMich: Battles between forces, can play player versus player on LAN, direct connect or through official matchmaking. Can also be played Player vs AI, either in single skirmishes on over a Galactic Conquest. The official servers will hold a pvp Galactic Conquest as well.

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ERISS: Can we multi-play it without the official server?
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JMich: LAN and Direct Connect

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ERISS: and are the scores, achievments only seen on this server?
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JMich: Seems so

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ERISS: I mean: if the official servers is closed, can we still play the full game?
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JMich: Yes

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ERISS: (Is it built as a MMO game?)
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JMich: No
Can this game be played over the internet on 3rd party servers like gamespy?
Posted April 16, 2013
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EPurpl3: Can this game be played over the internet on 3rd party servers like gamespy?
No idea, since we don't yet know if they'll make it available. But since they do mention Direct Connect, I'd assume yes. Worse case scenario, Hamachi/Tunngle and simulate LAN.
Posted April 16, 2013
Hello There,

I Voted Yes.

This game looks pretty awesome. Honestly it reminds me of Total Annihiliation just that you can go on planets and stuff! I mean wow.. This simply blown my mind even though it looks to be like a older game.

I would honestly Love to see this game on GOG and yes, I would buy it. I just want to play the game myself now.

Still waiting for more awesome Strategy games to come to GOG. Starting to Love GOG.com more then Steam. Lol.

Thank,

Osiris! =)
Posted April 16, 2013
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mrkgnao: The survey question is clearly phrased so it is very difficult to answer "no".
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blueskirt42: It is phrased so that the black and white "all or nothing" mentality prevalent in many gamers nowadays understands that voting "no" to anything that could potentially maybe turn into a slippery slope means that plenty of great games with acceptable but borderline DRM business model (you register to use their server, you can still play SP and LAN) will get kicked out of GOG because of the "I voted no because they will sell out to EA and Blizzard if we vote yes!" attitude.

Yes it prevents SimCity and Diablo III from showing up here but it also prevents plenty of other games that certainly don't deserve the same treatment.
Gamers should also understand that voting "yes" means that plenty of other great games will never make it to GOG because GOG's resources are limited.

It has been stated repeatedly that releasing and supporting a game is a lot of work. The question is where should GOG focus its efforts. I would prefer it did so on more traditional games (both old and new).

I have absolutely no problem with all this register/activate/LAN/internet/keys/codes mumbo jumbo. But I do have a problem with games that have "no story-based single-player campaign". Even if they're free (Yes, I'm looking at you, Warsow).

I do not believe the earth will shatter if this kind of game comes to GOG, but I would prefer other games instead. Hell, I would even prefer some missing website features (e.g. change log) instead.

However, I do regret the fact that GOG did not have the courage to ask a neutrally phrased question (not the one from my post you quote, which is intentionally phrased in the opposite direction), but had to resort to this one in order to get the answer it wanted.
Posted April 16, 2013
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sa_osiris_: Hello There,

I Voted Yes.

This game looks pretty awesome. Honestly it reminds me of Total Annihiliation just that you can go on planets and stuff! I mean wow.. This simply blown my mind even though it looks to be like a older game.

I would honestly Love to see this game on GOG and yes, I would buy it. I just want to play the game myself now.

Still waiting for more awesome Strategy games to come to GOG. Starting to Love GOG.com more then Steam. Lol.

Thank,

Osiris! =)
LOL, I think you didn't understood, the question was not about this particular game, the question was, "do you agree with this new business model, DRM on internet play?"
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)New Gaming Options: Follow-up Survey(519 posts)(519 posts)
(519 posts)