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sunshinecorp: Again you're saying the exact same things.
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BKGaming: Because that makes sense, any one who clearing understands it would get that... So either you not being logical about this, or you really only care if you get what you want.
But: RIGHT BACK AT YOU.
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Lodium: Yes im aware of that.
Just want an answer from him since what he ask for in a way already exist, but no gains on that platform have been achived.
DRM is still not abolished becuase its up publishers as you say, region locking is not abolished either.
And there are no problem proving it can be viabal on steam since its proven again and again that steam sells millions withouth DRM and withouth regional locking but they still havent abolished it yet.
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BKGaming: And so what? So because steam sell's product A with DRM but GOG sells the same product A without DRM that not a gain because DRM is not abolished? You can't really be trying to make that argument.

The fact that's available somewhere, and not on steam DRM free is a gain... I don't care how you look at it. Publishers may be making the decision but they also know they can't pick up sales from the second biggest digital storefront without taking away the DRM. Because GOG makes them to sell here.

There are plenty of products available on Steam and GOG with no DRM... do you honestly think that would have happen without GOG taking the steps to move us to DRM free products. So were not suppose to consider than a gain.
There was DRM free Games on steam before GOG appeared
But its true there wasnt as much it is today
But thats not my point.

The point is that steam has proven that it can sell millions withouth DRM and/or Region locking.
You argue that it can be a gain if the digital content is region locked but DRM free.
I have shown you this is not the case since the proof of concept with millons of copys sold no DRM or NO regional locking
still havent had all the publishers getting convinced to sell it wordwide DRM free the same way on steam.

Explaining it further
Company A sells 10 million copys on steam with Region locked content DRM free
Company B decide to Sell on steam but they dont have DRM free even though they have seen the sale numbers that DRM free can sell just as well and sometimes even better if they remove the restrictions.
Post edited October 20, 2014 by Lodium
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BKGaming: And so what? So because steam sell's product A with DRM but GOG sells the same product A without DRM that not a gain because DRM is not abolished? You can't really be trying to make that argument.

The fact that's available somewhere, and not on steam DRM free is a gain... I don't care how you look at it. Publishers may be making the decision but they also know they can't pick up sales from the second biggest digital storefront without taking away the DRM. Because GOG makes them to sell here.

There are plenty of products available on Steam and GOG with no DRM... do you honestly think that would have happen without GOG taking the steps to move us to DRM free products. So were not suppose to consider than a gain.
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Lodium: There was DRM free Games on steam before GOG appeared
But its true there wasnt as much it is today
But thats not my point.

The point is that steam has proven that it can sell millions withouth DRM and/or Region locking.
You argue that it can be a gain if the digital content is region locked but DRM free.
I have shown you this is not the case since the proof of concept with millons of copys sold no DRM or NO regional locking
still havent had all the publishers getting convinced to sell it wordwide DRM free the same way on steam.
Again why are you focusing on Steam, I don't get this? Why does it matter if Steam doesn't do it but GOG does? That's the benefit of living in society with options.

I never claimed it was gain because it would move the movie industry forward at all digital storefront's... I said it was gain because GOG will be offering us something better than what other storefronts selling movies are offering us. GOG clearly has shown when it does something however it can have an effect on other digital storefront, otherwise would Steam have as many DRM free games now? No.

When music went completely DRM free iTunes continued to sell the same music for a long time with DRM... eventually this changed, all music is DRM free now... and it's likely if GOG continues to expand and sign big games publishers they will also put the same games on Steam without DRM in the future.

As far as DRM games go were sill in the turning point, publishers are still wary of it but view points are changing. Movies on the other-hand, haven't even began to change there view point and won't without a major player like GOG trying to make gains, which can't happen without our support.
Post edited October 18, 2014 by BKGaming
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Lodium: There was DRM free Games on steam before GOG appeared
But its true there wasnt as much it is today
But thats not my point.

The point is that steam has proven that it can sell millions withouth DRM and/or Region locking.
You argue that it can be a gain if the digital content is region locked but DRM free.
I have shown you this is not the case since the proof of concept with millons of copys sold no DRM or NO regional locking
still havent had all the publishers getting convinced to sell it wordwide DRM free the same way on steam.
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BKGaming: Again why are you focusing on Steam, I don't get this? Why does it matter if Steam does't do it but GOG does? That's the benefit of living in society with options.

I never claimed it was gain because it would move the movie industry forward at all digital storefront's... I said it was gain because GOG will be offering us something better than what other storefronts selling movies are offering us. GOG clearly has shown when it does something however it can have an effect on other digital storefront, otherwise would Steam have as many DRM free games now? No.

When music went completely DRM free iTunes continued to sell the same music for a long time with DRM... eventually this changed... and it's likely if GOG continues to expand and sign big games publishers they will also put the same games on Steam without DRM.

As far as DRM games go were sill in the turning point, publishers are still wary of it but view points are changing. Movies ton the other-hand, haven't even began to change there view point and won't without a major player like GOG trying to make gains, which can't happen without our support.
If thats the case i migth just stay on Steam and buy my stuff there.
There is a reason i come here to buy it, and one of those is this store is unique.
If it aims to be just another steam store with regional locked content but more and more drm free games what reasons do i have to stay here?
Regional locked Movies?
I can bug Valve on steam to have that.since they already have some videoes.
I can argue and make the case that : hey you guys IN valve and dear Gaben.
Please let me buy Regional locked movies on Steam, pretty please with sugar on top.

PS. the thing with itunes is not true.
They even DRM/copyprotect stuff people have made themself.
My brother got his own stuff the itunes treatment, despite he never making a contract with apple.
So Itunes is still wery much DRM, no changes there.
Post edited October 18, 2014 by Lodium
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Lodium: If thats the case i migth just stay on Steam and buy my stuff there.
Which is fine.

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Lodium: There is a reason i come here to buy it, and one of those is this store is unique.
This store is unique, it actually goes after getting DRM free content (and region locked free when it can) and providing there customers with working games on newer system with great customers service along with movies.

Steam doesn't care about getting DRM free, Steam doesn't care about making old games work... Steam doesn't have good customer service or gives you credit to make up the difference with a fair price package when you pay more for a game than someone else. Steam doesn't make old games work, a number of old games they sale won't run on new system but the GOG version works fine.

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Lodium: If it aims to be just another steam store with regional locked content but more and more drm free games what reasons do i have to stay here?
See above, & were talking about movies and movies only. Games will not change, there still free of region locking from what I can tell. If/When Steam introduces movies it may be even worse because they will be region locked and probably have DRM that makes the movie tied to your Steam account. You may not even be able to use it on all your devices.

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Lodium: Regional locked Movies?
I can bug Valve on steam to have that.since they already have some videoes.
Again see above, don't contribute the two to being the exact same... they like won't be and Steam would likely be more restricted.

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Lodium: I can argue and make the case that : hey you guys IN valve and dear Gaben.
Please let me buy Regional locked movies on Steam, pretty please with sugar on top.
No arguing really needed, pretty sure it was discovered a while ago that movies, tv shows, and music are all headed to Steam at some point.

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Lodium: PS. the thing with itunes is not true.
They even DRM/copyprotect stuff people have made themself.
My brother got his own stuff the itunes treatment, despite he never making a contract with apple.
So Itunes is still wery much DRM, no changes there.
Yes it is, music has been DRM free on iTunes for a few years now. Every song I own on iTunes is DRM free. No sure what is up with your brothers stuff, but I assure you the music is DRM free.

Videos are not however...
Post edited October 18, 2014 by BKGaming
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sunshinecorp: It's obvious that you don't get the attitude, because it's not "if I can't have it, no one can", it's "if they're going to exclude one of us, the rest of us refuse to buy it as well". It's not selfish, it's taking a stand.
What do you hope to accomplish with this noble stand of yours other than maintaining the status quo? There are currently no distributors anywhere in the world that offer AAA DRM-free films legally. How will GOG boycotting AAA releases altogether change the complex and fractured distribution deals already in place?

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sunshinecorp: I was also wondering if you'll even add the link to the nay booth on the OP. But no matter, the nays are nearing five times the yays regardless.
I did you one better, I removed the yay link altogether because the use of "region lock" in the entry is misleading.
Post edited October 18, 2014 by Barry_Woodward
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Barry_Woodward: What do you hope to accomplish with this noble stand of yours other than maintaining the status quo? There are currently ZERO distributors anywhere in the world that offer AAA DRM-free films legally. How will GOG boycotting AAA releases altogether change the complex and fractured distribution deals already in place?
We do have to start somewhere, don't we?
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sunshinecorp: We do have to start somewhere, don't we?
My point exactly.
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Barry_Woodward: I did you one better, I removed the yay link altogether because the use of "region lock" in the entry is misleading.
So, now you believe that 5 nays to 1 yays is because the yay booth is misleading. That's great. Are you going to start your own voting? With your own "better" wording?
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sunshinecorp: We do have to start somewhere, don't we?
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Barry_Woodward: My point exactly.
Was that something smart that I'm not getting?
Post edited October 18, 2014 by sunshinecorp
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Barry_Woodward: I did you one better, I removed the yay link altogether because the use of "region lock" in the entry is misleading.
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sunshinecorp: So, now you believe that 5 nays to 1 yays is because the yay booth is misleading. That's great. Are you going to start your own voting? With your own "better" wording?
I think both entries are misleading and I'm seeing a lot of misunderstanding of the issue. Most of GOG's customers don't even visit the forums or vote on wishlist entries, so I don't necessarily believe boycotting AAA releases is what the majority wants.

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Barry_Woodward: My point exactly.
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sunshinecorp: Was that something smart that I'm not getting?
If we want AAA DRM-free film releases anywhere, we have to start somewhere.
Post edited October 20, 2014 by Barry_Woodward
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sunshinecorp: So, now you believe that 5 nays to 1 yays is because the yay booth is misleading. That's great. Are you going to start your own voting? With your own "better" wording?
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Barry_Woodward: I think both entries are misleading and I'm seeing a lot of misunderstanding of the issue. Most of GOG's customers don't even visit the forums or vote on wishlist entries such as those, so I don't necessarily believe boycotting AAA releases is what the majority wants.

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sunshinecorp: Was that something smart that I'm not getting?
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Barry_Woodward: If we want AAA DRM-free releases anywhere, we have to start somewhere.
But we can shit on not wanting practices like region locking to perpetuate?
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Lodium: If thats the case i migth just stay on Steam and buy my stuff there.
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BKGaming: Which is fine.

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Lodium: There is a reason i come here to buy it, and one of those is this store is unique.
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BKGaming: This store is unique, it actually goes after getting DRM free content (and region locked free when it can) and providing there customers with working games on newer system with great customers service along with movies.

Steam doesn't care about getting DRM free, Steam doesn't care about making old games work... Steam doesn't have good customer service or gives you credit to make up the difference with a fair price package when you pay more for a game than someone else. Steam doesn't make old games work, a number of old games they sale won't run on new system but the GOG version works fine.

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Lodium: If it aims to be just another steam store with regional locked content but more and more drm free games what reasons do i have to stay here?
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BKGaming: See above, & were talking about movies and movies only. Games will not change, there still free of region locking from what I can tell. If/When Steam introduces movies it may be even worse because they will be region locked and probably have DRM that makes the movie tied to your Steam account. You may not even be able to use it on all your devices.

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Lodium: Regional locked Movies?
I can bug Valve on steam to have that.since they already have some videoes.
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BKGaming: Again see above, don't contribute the two to being the exact same... they like won't be and Steam would likely be more restricted.

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Lodium: I can argue and make the case that : hey you guys IN valve and dear Gaben.
Please let me buy Regional locked movies on Steam, pretty please with sugar on top.
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BKGaming: No arguing really needed, pretty sure it was discovered a while ago that movies, tv shows, and music are all headed to Steam at some point.

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Lodium: PS. the thing with itunes is not true.
They even DRM/copyprotect stuff people have made themself.
My brother got his own stuff the itunes treatment, despite he never making a contract with apple.
So Itunes is still wery much DRM, no changes there.
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BKGaming: Yes it is, music has been DRM free on iTunes for a few years now. Every song I own on iTunes is DRM free. No sure what is up with your brothers stuff, but I assure you the music is DRM free.

Videos are not however...
No its not,
Unless they changed this recently.
He cant download his own music or use his music withouth having an itunes account/itunes player
He never uploaded his music to Itunes, he only played his own songs once with the itunes player as i understood it
What rigth do Itunes have to set their mark on something they dont own?

This is music my brother has composed, its not owned by annyone but him.
He is still unsignet, nada contract.

Im gonna check if they have changed they way it used to be done.
Migth take a while since i need to get ahold of my bother as well to get him to explain to me to be sure im not misunderstanding things.
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BKGaming: Which is fine.

This store is unique, it actually goes after getting DRM free content (and region locked free when it can) and providing there customers with working games on newer system with great customers service along with movies.

Steam doesn't care about getting DRM free, Steam doesn't care about making old games work... Steam doesn't have good customer service or gives you credit to make up the difference with a fair price package when you pay more for a game than someone else. Steam doesn't make old games work, a number of old games they sale won't run on new system but the GOG version works fine.

See above, & were talking about movies and movies only. Games will not change, there still free of region locking from what I can tell. If/When Steam introduces movies it may be even worse because they will be region locked and probably have DRM that makes the movie tied to your Steam account. You may not even be able to use it on all your devices.

Again see above, don't contribute the two to being the exact same... they like won't be and Steam would likely be more restricted.

No arguing really needed, pretty sure it was discovered a while ago that movies, tv shows, and music are all headed to Steam at some point.

Yes it is, music has been DRM free on iTunes for a few years now. Every song I own on iTunes is DRM free. No sure what is up with your brothers stuff, but I assure you the music is DRM free.

Videos are not however...
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Lodium: No its not,
Unless they changed this recently.
He cant download his own music or use his music withouth having an itunes account/itunes player
He never uploaded his music to Itunes, he only played his own songs once with the itunes player as i understood it
What rigth do Itunes have to set their mark on something they dont own?

This is music my brother has composed, its not owned by annyone but him.
He is still unsignet, nada contract.

Im gonna check if they have changed they way it used to be done.
Migth take a while since i need to get ahold of my bother as well to get him to explain to me to be sure im not misunderstanding things.
Erm, yea of course you need an iTunes account and buy the music file, to get DRM free music... but this is no different than games on GOG.

When you buy a song on iTunes, you can take that file, put it on any device you own or convert it to a completely different file type. The file itself is DRM free. The only music not DRM free on iTunes is music that you bought before the change was made, but you can pay to upgrade to the DRM free version I believe.

What your saying makes no sense. In order for you music that you made to be on sold on iTunes you have to make a deal with iTunes for them to sell it. Just playing your song in the iTunes player does not add your music to iTunes automatically.

If he did make a deal with iTunes to sell his music, then his music must be DRM free because iTunes sells all music DRM free..

EDIT:

Read this article for proof.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1138000/drm_faq.html
Post edited October 18, 2014 by BKGaming
Have a quick look at this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code#Criticism_and_legal_concerns
It's mentioning DVDs because well, noone bothered to update the article since 2010, but it still holds true for digitally distributed films.
Take special note of this phrase: "is investigating whether the resulting price discrimination amounts to a violation of EU competition law"
Region locking is just another way to gouge prices, and it really has to stop. The only thing keeping it in place is lobbying. Which you fund by not boycotting.
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sunshinecorp: Region locking is just another way to gouge prices, and it really has to stop. The only thing keeping it in place is lobbying. Which you fund by not boycotting.
Yes, but who are you boycotting? The big studios or your local distributors? Will they even understand what message is being sent? Region withholding is legally required because of distribution deals already on the books. Those films will not magically be released DRM-free if GOG boycotts them.
Post edited October 18, 2014 by Barry_Woodward