Not at all! In mafia the majority attempts to vote for the mafia: in Hitler the majority attempts to vote for the Liberals.

Getting an scum result in mafia you say "aha, now we can lynch flubbucket," getting a sweet result in mafia you say "drat, I guess Joe's someone to avoid."

Getting a scum secret hitler you say "oh drat, I guess flubbucket's someone to avoid." Getting an sweet result you say "aha, now we can elect Joe."

The exception, thinking about it, is saying "aha! now if we continue to make a mess of things then hopefully a fellow sweet will be the one in charge of the execution order and trust me enough to take a shot at flubbucket in the chance that he's hitler and win the game."

But, as you say, it's all muddied by who can trust whom and etcetera.

But yeah, I want to be investigated because 1: people want to investigate me, which suggests that they'll have some faith in the result of that investigation. 2: There was a plan to skip to blotunga and then skip to me which would be good. I still trust blotunga, because if pooka and blotunga were both fascist, I don't see why blotunga would lead the campaign to skip pooka's presidency. Especially with the perfectly good "pooka is a new player who has requested to be not skipped." reasoning available.


I also see that we've clarified what each other meant and we're currently eating ice cream so hooray hooray to that. :)

[DIRECTORS COMMENTARY: I chose to throw shade flubbucket's way in this post, because he hasn't thrown any his own way in a little while and I'm starting to make out his outline amidst the gloom.]

I meant that's kind of implied. Though of course it needen't be true.

For example if someone says "This store is closed today because it's the weekend" you kind of assume that on weekdays it is open. Of course it needn't be true, the store could be closed Tuesdays and weekends. Or closed every day for that matter but for a different reason each day.

OK. No vetos. So I

investigate JoeSapphire

(yes, I'll submit this to the mod via PM too)

OK, fair enough.

However I still think that given the state of the current game "He's an F" from Lift is much more useful for us than "He's an L".

And the fact that Lift's investigating you makes me a bit more suspicious of him. I have a feeling he's going to "clear" you.

No. But if Lift investigates Pooka it would still tie you all together and make things easier.
e.g. if Lift clears Pooka then you turning F automatically brings down all three. Pooka turning F brings down Lift and gives a strong down reason not to trust you. Lift turning F either implies Pooka and you are F or it means Lift purposely did that to cast shade on the two of you. Either way, depending on the circumstances of what happens next we can get good info.

On the other hand if Lift says "Joe is Liberal" then.... what have we really learned?

It's a moot point anyway now.

Joe for chancellor!

So, I got the result from zeo and JoeSapphire is FASCIST.

Looks like you got your wish, ZFR. It doesn't change much, though. Like previously said, just exclude us both from future governments, then we should be fine. I say, we still go through with the blotunga +X (probably ZFR) government next.

Ok. That's actually good news. And I actually believe you more. Mainly due to his "investigate me!". But i could be wrong...

Zeo, you going to give us investigation flavour like you did for Pooka?

Joe, any words?

Anyone against scene + me government?

I endorse this message.

2 Fascist policies. Yep what i expected with those odds. Hard to get around it.

I'll default to my previous declaration, unless i see a reason to do otherwise *beep beep*

The plot thickens. Do we trust Lift's read? If yes, do we still believe that ZFR randomly picked Joe? And at this moment technically ZFR is our most trusted fellow.

We need to avoid joe, so our best bet is a rtcb/flub chancellor. The logic in this is the following: there still is a 38% chance for a FFF. So if we get a FFF, we will learn nothing about the chancellor, but at least I can nominate a different president who'm we could trust. ZFR, SPF, trent and maybe Pooka are the most likely candidates. If we get at least one L, most likely it will be elected so the chancellor can be our next president.

No, my friend Lift. Thinking it over, I don't trust you.

You've taken part in two fascist governments, you knew you were finished anyway. So what else could you do for your team? Make sure your going down won't be in vain. Bring down someone else with you. Why? Because you knew the path we're on means you lose. You were oh so keen on having you and Joe out of any government and graciously agreed to yourself being out too. And now we have to go through rtcvb or flub whom you know that both (or at least one?) are your buddies.

That's why you chose Joe over Pooka who was tricky for you to investigate since you either had to practically clear both or go into conflict with both? And then the "You got your wish" to me. Haha nice touch.

Was flub's open "Investigate Joe" an instruction to a fellow fascist. Is rtcvb's lie in his last post that he knew 2 Fs would be passed because of the odds, when in fact those odds were just 25% an attempt to show those 2 Fs as something natural. Heck was trent's picking of flub a newbie mistake and when he realized it he decided to pick another fellow?

OK, maybe Im wrong about one of those but something about you definitely smells.

I suggest we stick to original plan. Or I wouldnt even mind scene + me then blotunga.

With no further ado I nominate Zachariah Freddie Roosavolt as my honourable Chancellor of my New Reich, the EU, 2019 edition without Britain

To be fair I think it was myself that first suggested Joe based on my 'Hitler is likely to be in power in the first 2 governments theory. Joe was a good choice on that basis, given Lift can't investigate himself and that ZFR looked proven. Investigating Trent does little in the case Lift is actually Hitler and Trent is Scum.

From that perspective Joe and Pooka were always the best options for investigation

You do realise Joe did get the most votes so was the democratic choice? The only issue really was it was done a bit quick before some posters chimed in.

You're right though your scenario may have actually happened. In that we have an innocent Liberal Joe taken down by a vile Fascist Lift. But as mentioned above I was the first to point to investigating Joe. My reasoning is in my reply to Blotunga and throughout the thread. Does that mean you think I'm part of a Scumteam because of this? What do you think of my theory that Hitler is likely to be in the first 2 governments? Obviously if you're Liberal, you know the odds decrease for this.

There is the other scenario where Liberal Lift gets into government with Fascist Pooka, Pooka hides a Liberal card and Lift is faced with a stack full of only Fascist cards. Lift then investigates the most popular candidate for investigation and Joe did get the most votes if you scroll back and finds a Fascist.

And what's the disadvantage of a fascist Lift investigating Pooka if Pooka and Blotunga are both Liberal? That would be a jackpot for a fascist if both are Liberal as he gets to take out 2 targets in 1 foul swoop. The only explanation for not investigating Pooka would be if Pooka and Blotunga were also fascist. That would be game over for team F. But then why would a fascist Blotunga want to get on a scumbudies team? That doesn't make sense either and points to Lift and Blotunga being different and by extension, Lift and Pooka being different. All 3 could be Liberal but that looks unlikely.

Also if Lift is fascist and Blotunga is liberal, why doesn't Lift try to implicate Blotunga by saying 'I passed him a Liberal card'? That to me doesn't entirely make sense.

There's no real way of knowing which is the Scum player between Joe and Lift, we just know they are on different teams at this point. If we had another investigation we could investigate Lift and I tend to think more powers should be available in the game because our knowledge is weakened without investigations.

Either way, no we shouldn't make Joe president in case Lift is a genuine Liberal. It isn't the risk we really want to take.

Agree @RTCVB makes an odd post. RTCVB would you like to expand on your claim?

Yes, the odd thing is that Lift didn't tried to get into conflict with me. Of course if he is scum, it's possible it was a great move, taking out 2-3 liberals in a swoop (me, joe and Pooka).
I'm going over the votes so far:
ZFR/joe: naysayers: SPF, Pooka(carr), Scene
Trent/lift: pooka(carr)
SPF/zfr: trent, lift, me
Pooka/lift: zfr, me
Lift/me: SPF/joe

I'm starting to think that I'm being set up. I'm starting to think that pooka is L. I know for sure I am, and he confirmed me. If I were F, I would've voted for my buddy.
Btw scene, in the last game you used to do a lot of useful analysis, which you don't really do anymore. Are you F?

Fine by me. I know you can't trust me since, as you elaborated, my read might be a devious fabrication to take Joe out. But the point is, I know that I got the Joe=Fascist read from zeo, so I won't endorse any government that includes him. I'm aware that I won't be in any future government either, but as I said, 1 for 1 is a good deal. Blotunga still seems quite Liberal to me. Most of your play looks very liberal too - apart from your first nomination of Joe. You claim it was random and considering your random.org addiction that claim is believable. However, as fascist ZFR might have used exactly that known addiction to cover for nominating a fellow fascist as first chancellor. Maybe even Hitler, so that Hitler can gain some early Liberal credits. After all, Fascists will try their best to get Hitler into an early, Liberal-passing government. I'm a bit torn about this. Random fits you and if you're liberal, the chance that the random choice lands on a fascist is 4/9. So, not that unlikely. One question about this: did you choose randomly among all other players, or did you exclude someone? For example trent, because that would have been a double government?

Something different: I don't trust flubb. His 'investigate Joe' might have been a joke or just a statement of his liberal opinion. But it might have been support for his fellow fascist Joe, who wanted to be investigated.