Hi all,

I'd like to get into CRPGs. I own quite a few from sales over the years, but I've played through very few.

I'll admit that I don't have the best attention span, and it's hard for me to stick with a game for the 50+ hours that some of these games require (I like to be a completionist). However, I think that I could overcome this problem if I found a CRPG with at least some of the following modern concessions:

- Decent built-in tutorial so that I don't have to read FAQs to figure out how to play
- Good user interface (this is subjective)
- Streamlined customization so that it's difficult to completely gimp your party
- Low to moderate combat difficulty level (this is very subjective)
- Decent quest tracking
- Advanced systems like crafting, spells, etc. should be optional for success

The only the CRPG that I've actually completed multiple times and enjoyed is Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. I want to expand my repertoire a bit, so please provide any recommendations (preferably ones available on GOG or Steam) or let me know if you need any further input from me.

Thanks in advance and I look forward to rediscovering this great genre!

Fallout: New Vegas?
Diablo 3?
Final Fantasy IX?

Though there are a lot of really great RPGs out there, I'll just list newer ones that aren't too old-school

BioShock Infinite
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Disciples 2(tactical RPG-lite)
Elder Scrolls 4 or 5 (Oblivion or Skyrim), but not earlier
Fallout 3 New Vegas
Grim Dawn (action RPG like Diablo)
Jade Empire
King's Bounty (tactical RPG)
Mass Effect (RPG with shooter elements) OR Mass Effeect 2 (shooter with RPG elements)
Pillars of Eternity
any of the new Shadowrun games by Harebrained (tactical RPG)

EDIT: Added links to GOG games

Since you finish KOTOR, what about Mass Effect or Dragon Age Origin? It is quite similar in terms of gameplay and both comes with good interesting storyline. Dragon Age Origin is available on GOG

GlennPN -- thanks for your suggestions! Here are some comments

Fallout: New Vegas -- I do have this, and Fallout 3. Got them both in a pack. Got kind of far into Fallout 3 but lost my save. Games like this and the Elder Scrolls games (from Morrowind on) are good because there's not really any party management and the combat is somewhat real-time and simplified.

Diablo 3 -- Played the first one a bit, almost beat the second one, and heard the third one is pretty steamlined. I think I might be looking for something a little more story-rich/a little less hack-n-slash. Might check it out if Blizzard puts it on sale.

Final Fantasy IX-- I remember liking it back in the day. I think I got to the third disc on PSX. I consider JRPGs to be separate from CRPGs, though. The line can get pretty blurred, I know, but I'd consider FFIX a classic JRPG that doesn't have most of the features I would look for in a CRPG: character customization, open world, lots of text and backstory, etc.

Wonderful - I had a big post, but my internet decided to crash...
There's no way I'm typing this again.

Some games I think you will like:

Bethesda Fallouts.

Skyrim.

These have bazillions of mods, so you can customize them and do all kinds of things. Play the type of game you want!
This is the site I use to search mods:
www.nexusmods.com
Thanks to the work of fans, these games have INSANE replay value.
Enjoy!

Thanks for putting this together, OneFiercePuppy.

BioShock Infinite-- I've heard mixed feelings on this, and I didn't really like the first two BioShocks. I'd consider them Action RPGs with very light RPG elements. I suppose something like the Deus Ex series or the older System Shock series would scratch my itch though.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution-- I have the director's cut and just got frustrated by I think the second or third boss fight. I hadn't really built my character to be a fighter and lost patience. It's a shame, too, because the game is really solid otherwise.

Disciples 2-- Never heard of it! I'll have to check it out.

Oblivion/Skyrim-- Could never get into Oblivion, never played Skyrim. Is Skyrim signficantly better? I know there are a lot of ways you can improve the game with mods, but I never know when to start or stop with that sort of thing

Fallout: New Vegas-- See my earlier response.

Grim Dawn-- I think I saw this once, but it looks too hack-n-slash for what I'm looking for right now.

Jade Empire-- Never got too far when I tried this a long time ago. Seems like a good step to take after KOTOR.

King's Bounty-- Is this a good place to start for TRPGs? This looks a lot like one of the those (Heroes of?) Might and Magic games... would those be a better place to start?

Mass Effect-- This game is cursed. I've gotten so close to beating it many times, but never pulled it off. Maybe I should just hop straight to the second game.

Pillars of Eternity-- I heard good things. It looks like a more modern "Baldur's Gate" with modern concessions.

Shadowrun games-- Got them as a gift, haven't really looked into them much, but they seem short which would seem to be an advantage. I recall getting pretty far in Dragon Age: Origins, but I feel like the newest game in the series might be better. I have it on EA Origin, but got stuck in the Hinterlands area and just kind of never recovered. Any recommended mods to make, say... Skyrim more enjoyable from the get-go? Or is vanilla fine?

Your criteria also matches what our mainstream media happen to prefer in their RPGs, and by extension most YT & Twitch streamers, like Cohhcarnage for example (great guy). The fact is most gamers and reviews don't seem to like classic or old-school game design. So it shouldn't be too difficult to find something new to play by simply browsing their pages.

Example: Diablo 3, Divinity Original Sin 1 & 2, Fallout 4, Mass Effect, Dragon Age Origins & Inquisition, Witcher 3, Legend of Grimrock 1 & 2, Wasteland 2 ...

Maybe it's just me but I think 'CRPGs with modern concessions' = modern RPGs.
Since all modern RPGs still show traces of the classics in their games.

When it comes to RPGs today I prefer games like Avadon 3, Risen 3, Technomancer, Age of Decadence and so on. So I'm not the best person to answer this perhaps.

I find Skyrim vastly preferable to Oblivion, but that's personal preference. It's slightly streamlined from Oblivion and thus is even less of an RPG, but both are very far fallen from the RPGness of Morrowind, which I enjoy most of the ES games. Skyrim is well worth playing if you want an accessible 1st-person RPG-lite walking simulator. I quite like it. EDIT: Oh, mods. If you get the new version of Skyrim with the DLCs, I'd say just play with only the official content, once. Then, when you either finish it or get a little tired of it, mod it up and play again. You can really turn a Bethesda game into something utterly unlike its release form, with some heavy modding. And modding Bethsoft games is so, so easy.

King's Bounty is simpler than the HoMM games because there is no city management, which is why I suggested it instead of the HoMM series. Your choice. Both are very good.

With Mass Effect, keep in mind that there's a very large change between the first and second games. If you like action games, you should enjoy ME2. If you were hoping for RPG experience like ME1, though, it'll come as an unpleasant surprise.

Interestingly, I totally forgot to recommend The Witcher 3, which is of course one of the best RPGs ever made. That's embarrassing.

Thanks Ricky_Bobby. I do appreciate your input.

I would like to eventually get into some CRPGs with more classic game design. Right now, I suppose I am looking for a "modern RPG" to just get back into the rhythm of a slower-paced game. I've been playing mostly FPSes and platformers for the past few years.

Games like Divinity Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity seem to offer a good compromise between the two.

I could mention that Final Fantasy V, while old, actually fulfills many of the criteria:

Built-in tutorial: Yes., there's a tutorial for the Job system. Aside from that, the game isn't particularly complex.

Good user interface: What you would expect from a FF game, though there are a few annoyances (particularly involving having to re-equip after changing jobs, and that Optimum sometimes equips items that have significant drawbacks). Other than that, the interface works fine.

Streamlined customization: It is actually quite streamlined: You choose a Job for a character, and an Ability that you've learned from another Job. That's it. Notably, you can change these in the menu, leading to *reversible* customization; in other words, even if you somehow manage to gimp your party, you can fix it trivially by changing the current jobs of some of your characters. It is also worth noting that it is possible, if you're patient, to max out every job for every character, though I suggest waiting until the end of the game to do this.

Combat difficulty: Is actually moderate to high, particularly in boss fights. However, the game provides you with plenty of options, some of which can completely trivialize boss fights (in particular, don't assume bosses are immune to status ailments and instant death attacks; you never know with this game). Also, if one set-up doesn't work, you can just choose another. Significantly harder than later FFs (FF6+), but not quite as hard as earlier FFs.

Quest tracking: None, but the game doesn't need it. The game is linear (with minor side-quests) until the end, at which point you can go straight to the final dungeon, and the number of side quests is small enough to keep track of mentally. The game world isn't anywhere near the size of games like Oblivion/Skyrim.

Advanced systems should be optional: For this game, I don't consider jobs (which the game gives you) and most types of magic (just buy them in a shop) to be advanced systems. Blue magic and the Chemist's !Mixes are indeed optional for success, though they *are* very useful and fun to use if you do get them.

Can I convince you to try Deus Ex HR once again? This time, take Typhoon upgrade and always have 3-4 typhoon ammo ready. Typhoon is basically an anti-boss weapon. I kill nearly every boss in the game simply by firing typhoon whenever they come close.

You mentioned you like the game but got stuck in boss fight. With this knowledge you can easily get far into the game

I'd say Pillars of Eternity. What struck me most about it, was how comfy, handy, convenient, modern, and streamlined its interface was, while remaining as faithful and fully RPGish to the old true RPGs as possible. Great update of them. Captured the best of both worlds, classic gameplay and modern ergonomy.

If you liked KotOR, why not try KotOR 2: Sith Lords?

Also I confirm that King's Bounty series is a good streamlined example of TRPG and Witcher series has rather moderate combat difficulty (especially on low difficulty settings).

They are both good games, you can't go wrong with them. Personally I preferred Pillars of Eternity, but that's me.

You might also want to look up and [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7YXQeApvQw]Lords of Xulima. The Shadowrun Returns & Dragonfall games might also be worth a look, they look modern but the gameplay is quite traditional. Then there's games like Van Helsing, Grim Dawn, Victor Vran and Kingdoms of Amalur.

The closest modern game to KOTOR is still Mass Effect (1) I'd say. Sadly there is no modern game around that offers the same kind of scope and depth as the KOTOR games did.