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rojimboo: .
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rojimboo: .
Excellent posts!

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SmollestLight: .
TheEndedSkull is correct in post 210. When people enter a thread and disrupt it by insulting/attacking others, the correct mod response is to delete their posts and/or ban them. When you let them stay but then lock the thread instead, you are actually REWARDING their negative behavior, because they get their wish. A topic they don't like is always "disrupted" and locked, so they get to keep anybody else from discussing it, ever. If they hated a topic SO much, why keep posting offensive things... why not ignore the thread in the first place?

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As a queer person, I thought I'd address two points I saw here.

1) What does being queer have to do with gaming?

People try to relate to the characters in games/stories, and we all like to see our "group" represented in a story. We all like to see our race/ culture/ sex/ religion/ whatever be the hero, save the day, right the wrongs, get things done. We relate better and enjoy stories more when characters look/ act/ speak like ourselves, especially the protagonist.

This may not be obvious to people if every story you encounter in life reflects you. It is painfully isolating, rejecting and exclusionary when NO story reflects you. Most minorities are usually starved for stories that actually represent them, because they are few and far between. A person who eats seven course meals every day and has never once in their life missed a meal, may not be able to even imagine what it's like to go to bed hungry every night, to spend every moment of your life with your stomach aching from hunger. A person who has never known want, may not be able to understand someone who's known nothing but.

Queers want to be able to enjoy stories too, and that's much harder when there are zero queer characters. Have you ever read a book or seen a movie where 100% of the characters were gay? Not a single hetero anywhere? Did you have trouble connecting with the characters, relating to the story? Did you feel like an outsider, or that the story didn't "speak" to you? That's how queers feel, with almost every story in existence being 100% hetero.

2) What is Pride about?

Many people in the world, especially the religious, keep telling queers that they're disgusting, degenerate, perverted, unnatural, sick, deviant, twisted, bent, horrible, selfish, hedonistic abominations deserving of death. There has been, and continues to be, a message that queers should feel SHAME for their "choice" to be queer. This ubiquitous messaging of shame has led to countless problems, severe depression and mental health issues, and far higher rates of suicide.

The message of shame has carried the additional message that queers need to hide themselves, that "decent people" shouldn't have to see them. There is even the additional insult that if queers just stayed hidden and didn't "shove their agenda" in everybody's faces, didn't "flaunt their sexuality", if queers just stayed in the closet, then nobody would care... so really all the abuse and violence and oppression they receive is their own fault. It's a mindset of victim-blaming by bigots.

Back in the day gays DID stay quiet... stayed hidden, stayed under the radar. And you know what happened? They were beaten, and killed, and tortured. They lived in constant fear of violence, with the knowledge that police would never protect them, would only join in with the attackers. This continued to happen until queers had enough, and fought back. Queers united, joined arms, and marched in broad daylight to show that they wouldn't be isolated or victimized again. They marched to show their numbers, that they weren't few but many, and that people who thought that gays were only 0.00000000000001% of the population were completely wrong.

The purpose of Pride is to counter the SHAME that people continue to tell queers to feel, to counter the message that queers have ANYTHING wrong with them, or that they should hide anything, or that they aren't entitled to 100% of the same rights, privileges and PDAs that heteros are. Pride is a pro-gay message, in world of anti-gay messaging.
Post edited June 06, 2021 by BlueMooner
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BlueMooner: Have you ever read a book or seen a movie where 100% of the characters were gay? Not a single hetero anywhere?
While it's a game, I think Ikenfell might qualify.

(Have you played it yet?)
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Thanks for sharing your favorite games with LGBTQ+ themes and characters, GOG Team!

Games that make me happy I may be gay:
SpellForce 3: Soul Harvest
GreedFall
The Technomancer
Cyberpunk 2077
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GamezRanker: Sidenote: I am more or less okay with/supportive of LGBT being prideful....I mainly dislike companies like GOG and others using/capitalizing on said pride to "sell product and get consumers eager to buy new product".
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StingingVelvet: Fair enough point, it's definitely just marketing in a lot of cases.
Agreed.
But capitalism and commerce is where the LGBT et similia are born.

And this is why GOG is leaving its original values in the WC and washing it.
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It seems most people here agree that this banner and this collection is some sort of marketing or paid/forced action. Strange. Why can't it be sincere?
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No thanks. Pride months sucks. Just another excuse to have random stuff shove down our throats by every company possible. The sooner we stop giving minorities stupid labels and banners, the better. Can't we all simply be human, just human? Would be so much better.
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BlueMooner: As a queer person, I thought I'd address two points I saw here.
I won't quote the entire thing here but it was very well said, and my thoughts exactly, thank you!
Being one of the staffers involved in creating the Pride Collection, for me the value of it is having these titles listed together for people to see games that feature storylines and characters that represent Queer community. Through comments on social media I could see many of these games were unknown to people before, or they weren't aware of LGBT stories being present there so that's great we could've maybe recommend something new to someone who may be interested. I remember my teenage years of looking of any positive representation I could relate to- you can imagine it wasn't something really discussed or shown in 00s Poland- and even though nowadays it's much easier to find, I'm thinking of this list as of something a teenage me would be happy to see. I know there are people that will see it as disingenuous as it makes GOG "just another company participating" and I understand why, but me and other people who made this collection happen really wanted to make it happen regardless; and honestly I just hope someone was happy to discover a new game to play it, regardless of what platform they'll choose to eventually purchase it from, now or in the future.
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BlueMooner: As a queer person, I thought I'd address two points I saw here.
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KosmicznaPluskwa: I won't quote the entire thing here but it was very well said, and my thoughts exactly, thank you!
Being one of the staffers involved in creating the Pride Collection, for me the value of it is having these titles listed together for people to see games that feature storylines and characters that represent Queer community. Through comments on social media I could see many of these games were unknown to people before, or they weren't aware of LGBT stories being present there so that's great we could've maybe recommend something new to someone who may be interested. I remember my teenage years of looking of any positive representation I could relate to- you can imagine it wasn't something really discussed or shown in 00s Poland- and even though nowadays it's much easier to find, I'm thinking of this list as of something a teenage me would be happy to see. I know there are people that will see it as disingenuous as it makes GOG "just another company participating" and I understand why, but me and other people who made this collection happen really wanted to make it happen regardless; and honestly I just hope someone was happy to discover a new game to play it, regardless of what platform they'll choose to eventually purchase it from, now or in the future.
These kind of stories and points are the EXACT types of content that should have been included in this collection. Currently, it's just a list of games. Your post gives context and reason with a sincere approach. The collection should have featured this kind of thing, instead of a list with little to no context on the choices, put on the front page with no presence beyond that. Instead of 11 pages of people asking 'BUT WHY THIS COLLECTION'' we could have had a story and reason that speaks to human values.

Hopefully next time it'll include something like this, the post made it much more engaging.
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KosmicznaPluskwa: I'm thinking of this list as of something a teenage me would be happy to see.
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Linko64: The collection should have featured this kind of thing
What do you mean? There is a note on the collection page that literally says:
our queer team members share their favorite games with LGBTQ+ themes and characters
Sure, there is some corpo-speak like "safe space" along the line, but I don't really see the difference at the core.
Post edited June 06, 2021 by LootHunter
The whole idea of needing a character to share one's gender/race/sexual orientation to be relatable is just bizarre to me. And that's putting it mildly. What makes a character relatable is good writing (and acting if applicable), not any of the above mentioned characteristics. I can honestly say that the thought that I can't relate to a character because they are not "like me" has never, ever crossed my mind.

"Damn, I can't possibly relate to commander Sisko losing his wife, raising his son alone and commanding a dangerous outpost on the edge of known space. If only he was white! It's a good thing Batman is heterosexual. That totally makes me relate to that billionaire playboy superhero who hangs out with Superman and the Flash! I could never imagine being him if he were also gay!"

See how crazy that sounds?

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BlueMooner: Have you ever read a book or seen a movie where 100% of the characters were gay? Not a single hetero anywhere? Did you have trouble connecting with the characters, relating to the story? Did you feel like an outsider, or that the story didn't "speak" to you? That's how queers feel, with almost every story in existence being 100% hetero.
The closest I can think of is Angels in America, where in the pretty large cast of characters I can only think of a single one not gay, and it's a woman, so basically no heterosexual men in sight... and no, I had absolutely no problem relating to them and their stories and they all spoke to me. So much so, that I consider it one of the absolute best tv shows I ever saw in my life, a true masterpiece. Because, again, what makes characters relatable is the great writing and fantastic acting. Not sexual orientation.
Post edited June 06, 2021 by Breja
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Linko64: The collection should have featured this kind of thing
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LootHunter: What do you mean? There is a note on the collection page that literally says:
our queer team members share their favorite games with LGBTQ+ themes and characters
Sure, there is some corpo-speak like "safe space" along the line, but I don't really see the difference at the core.
Pretty simple, you have a list of games with a vague theme. It's much more engaging to have some level of connection to why a game was picked by a certain person. Why that game spoke the person, how it reflects some element of their real-life experiences (as shown in quoted post)

You may not see the difference at the core, but that doesn't change it could have been done in a more effective way that goes beyond a list. Additionally, it also helps address some of the 'BuT wHy iS tHeRe A pRiDe CoLlEcTiON?!'

If I tell you Golden Sun is good and leave it at that, you'll probably forget the exchange pretty soon, if I tell you why and have the ability to add a human connection to it, then you'll remember the exchange for much longer, possibly with a new perspective
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BlueMooner: This may not be obvious to people if every story you encounter in life reflects you. It is painfully isolating, rejecting and exclusionary when NO story reflects you. Most minorities are usually starved for stories that actually represent them, because they are few and far between.

Queers want to be able to enjoy stories too, and that's much harder when there are zero queer characters. Have you ever read a book or seen a movie where 100% of the characters were gay? Not a single hetero anywhere? Did you have trouble connecting with the characters, relating to the story? Did you feel like an outsider, or that the story didn't "speak" to you?
I (like a number of others) play games/consume other media of any type as long as it is good. I don't need my specific gender/s*xuality/race represented to have fun with it.

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BlueMooner: That's how queers feel, with almost every story in existence being 100% hetero.
I am queer, and that's not how I feel.

As to your claim: what with how companies pandering to the LGBT these days is so in vogue, I really doubt that claim.....well unless perhaps you have solid facts/figures to back it up?

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BlueMooner: If they hated a topic SO much, why keep posting offensive things... why not ignore the thread in the first place?
"Offense is taken, not given"

Not to be be taken literally, the point is that before one assumes ill intent and becomes offended they should check/ask for context, and not just assume that because something offends that it was meant to be offensive.

Also, asking you what you asked of everyone else: why don't those here who dislike the content of this thread ignore it/read something else?

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AndreyB: It seems most people here agree that this banner and this collection is some sort of marketing or paid/forced action. Strange. Why can't it be sincere?
There's a chance it could be....the problem is that with so many companies doing similar it becomes harder to take any of them at their word.
Post edited June 06, 2021 by GamezRanker
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edit: mind freed
Post edited June 11, 2021 by Seb3.7
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Breja: The whole idea of needing a character to share one's gender/race/sexual orientation to be relatable is just bizarre to me. And that's putting it mildly. What makes a character relatable is good writing (and acting if applicable), not any of the above mentioned characteristics. I can honestly say that the thought that I can't relate to a character because they are not "like me" has never, ever crossed my mind.

"Damn, I can't possibly relate to commander Sisko losing his wife, raising his son alone and commanding a dangerous outpost on the edge of known space. If only he was white! It's a good thing Batman is heterosexual. That totally makes me relate to that billionaire playboy superhero who hangs out with Superman and the Flash! I could never imagine being him if he were also gay!"

See how crazy that sounds?
*slow clap*

Well said

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Breja: The closest I can think of is Angels in America, where in the pretty large cast of characters I can only think of a single one not gay, and it's a woman, so basically no heterosexual men in sight... and no, I had absolutely no problem relating to them and their stories and they all spoke to. So much so, that I consider it one of the absolute best tv shows I ever saw in my life, a true masterpiece. Because, again, what makes characters relatable is the great writing and fantastic acting. Not sexual orientation.
I've played games with no humans(robots/monsters as characters), games where I played as a woman, etc....and each time(if they were made well, that is) I had as much fun with them as any other piece of media.


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Linko64: You may not see the difference at the core, but that doesn't change it could have been done in a more effective way that goes beyond a list. Additionally, it also helps address some of the 'BuT wHy iS tHeRe A pRiDe CoLlEcTiON?!'

If I tell you Golden Sun is good and leave it at that, you'll probably forget the exchange pretty soon, if I tell you why and have the ability to add a human connection to it, then you'll remember the exchange for much longer, possibly with a new perspective
Agreed...some more information on each of the choices, maybe some words by the staff on why each was picked, etc etc...that, along with an official news thread made by staff/GOG, would've likely been better than just a list of games, some banners, and little else.
Post edited June 06, 2021 by GamezRanker
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LootHunter: What do you mean? There is a note on the collection page that literally says:
our queer team members share their favorite games with LGBTQ+ themes and characters
Sure, there is some corpo-speak like "safe space" along the line, but I don't really see the difference at the core.
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Linko64: Pretty simple, you have a list of games with a vague theme. It's much more engaging to have some level of connection to why a game was picked by a certain person. Why that game spoke the person, how it reflects some element of their real-life experiences (as shown in quoted post)
I'm not sure if we are talking about the same post. All I can see in blue is "I was looking for positive representation I could relate", which is a usual spiel I see in almost every comment from LGBTQ+/- activists. I don't see any specific game titles or why those games "spoke to that person".

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Linko64: If I tell you Golden Sun is good and leave it at that, you'll probably forget the exchange pretty soon, if I tell you why and have the ability to add a human connection to it, then you'll remember the exchange for much longer, possibly with a new perspective
I can tell you that Golden Sun was my first jRPG and that I played it on emulator when I was a student. But I doubt that will give anyone an idea why it's a good game.
Post edited June 06, 2021 by LootHunter