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richlind33: People do get convicted on the basis of circumstantial evidence. IMO, the timeline and Bethesda's pathetic track record re "quality standards" are damning enough that I find it wholly undeserving of the benefit of the doubt.
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GreasyDogMeat: I would have agreed but what gets them the benefit of the doubt in my opinion is the backlash they got over Rogue Warrior and how they handled the Doom reboot. Both are evidence of them actually caring about 'quality standards'.

Believe me, I've got plenty to complain about as far as Bethesda goes but I've also seen some very cool moves on their behalf. Game types that no other publisher would touch and allowing devs time to finish rough projects to name a few. Take them any day over Activision or EA.
It's a shame that didn't happen with HHS and Prey 2. A very cool looking game, well above the "quality standards" that we see today.
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USERNAME:Potzato#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:67#Q&_^Q&Q#I stopped supporting Bethesda since Fallout 3. But I get your point (which doesn't seem to be the case of many) : don't financially support ill-mannered outlets.#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:67#Q&_^Q&Q#
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I know he didn't develop Fallout 3. He's ok.


Edit : And while I get your point, I don't appreciate when people do 'shitty/funny' comparisons between 'alleged shady business practice' and physical harm / predatory behaviours. I hear you thinking 'Oye, It's an exaggeration mate !', to which I will answer in advance that it's a lazy argument that should be punished by law.
Post edited February 01, 2017 by Potzato
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Oh, geez... Arkane is on the job? I love Arkane! Arx Fatalis is one of my favorite games. Now I'm buying it for sure!

That is, unless the guy I buy it from picks his nose. Then I won't buy it. From him. I'll buy from somebody who I didn't see pick their nose.
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MaximeMartyr: snip
Nice wall of text yet it's missing what's important: the source.

Before crying foulplay and demanding from others to boycott, do a bit of research. All the claims about a hostile takeover of Arkane and an attempted one on Human Head is coming from one single posting on Neogaf, for which the author (at least to my knowledge) never provided ANY source at all.

I'm not claiming it's all bullshit nor that Bethesda doesn't have dirt on their hands. But neither do I believe everything on the Internet. Do you?^^
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Potzato: I know he didn't develop Fallout 3. He's ok.

Edit : And while I get your point, I don't appreciate when people do 'shitty/funny' comparisons between 'alleged shady business practice' and physical harm / predatory behaviours. I hear you thinking 'Oye, It's an exaggeration mate !', to which I will answer in advance that it's a lazy argument that should be punished by law.
Should. Right. Ridiculous exaggerations should be punished by law, while ridiculous accusations shouldn't. It fact we should totally believe them and act all indignant, like annoying and pretentious teenagers. I get your point "mate."
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richlind33: It's a shame that didn't happen with HHS and Prey 2. A very cool looking game, well above the "quality standards" that we see today.
Agree, the game looked amazing as did Duke Nukem Forever. Shame neither game will see the light of day.
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MaximeMartyr: snip
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Siannah: Nice wall of text yet it's missing what's important: the source.

Before crying foulplay and demanding from others to boycott, do a bit of research. All the claims about a hostile takeover of Arkane and an attempted one on Human Head is coming from one single posting on Neogaf, for which the author (at least to my knowledge) never provided ANY source at all.

I'm not claiming it's all bullshit nor that Bethesda doesn't have dirt on their hands. But neither do I believe everything on the Internet. Do you?^^
This is the source, linked in the thread OP... Prey 2 wasn't just a demo, it was/is a full game, and money was not the issue here, evidenced by the fact that Bethesda paid Arkane to start over from scratch.

If I was a Zenimax investor I'd be wanting to know WTF is going on because this doesn't make sense from a business standpoint.
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I'll be buying Prey (2017) if its good, because I've no ethics and I'm sellout. Video games are the most important thing in the world and thus are the ideal platform to discuss morals, ethics and consumer deontology while we hunt aliens and shoot them in face.
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Narakir: I'll be buying Prey (2017) if its good, because I've no ethics and I'm sellout. Video games are the most important thing in the world and thus are the ideal platform to discuss morals, ethics and consumer deontology while we hunt aliens and shoot them in face.
Hey, at least you're honest about it. lol
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Narakir: I'll be buying Prey (2017) if its good, because I've no ethics and I'm sellout. Video games are the most important thing in the world and thus are the ideal platform to discuss morals, ethics and consumer deontology while we hunt aliens and shoot them in face.
Rebel scum, you're all the same.
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Narakir: I'll be buying Prey (2017) if its good, because I've no ethics and I'm sellout. Video games are the most important thing in the world and thus are the ideal platform to discuss morals, ethics and consumer deontology while we hunt aliens and shoot them in face.
What if the allegations are false and you end up having ethics after all? Won't you feel stupid then? :P
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You deserve your own show, like Dr Phil.

But it would be Dr Duke and be about PC hardware and gaming.
Post edited February 01, 2017 by Kleetus
I was actually rather happy to hear that Bethesda had the gut to pause development and even cancel a game when they feel the game was not up to par. I remember between 2009 to 2011 (before Skyrim's release, also around the time Prey 2 stopped development), Bethesda had released quite several games ranging from mediocre to outright trash. Starting from Skyrim, they seemed to put a lot more care into quality control, and all the releases were at least good, and most of them were more than great.
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JK41R4: I'm just going to point out to Maxime here that unless he stole his computer, and is bumming off of someone else's internet, he is also supporting unethical practices by continuing to post here, by his own logic.
Edit: added off before of
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MaximeMartyr: I don't get your point here. Could you explain please so I understand?
Asbeau's post (Post 58) explains it better I think.

Basically, you are likely paying for access to internet, which is funding your internet company's 'unethical' practices, and payed money to obtain an internet enabled device, which is funding the store you bought it from's 'unethical' practices, and also those of the several manufacturers involved. And lets not go into items you need to use everyday...
Post edited February 01, 2017 by JK41R4
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MaximeMartyr: Hmm... Maybe I should be more explicit since you didn't watch the video.
Please do

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MaximeMartyr: In 2006, a developer named Human Head Studio, under contract for 3D Realms that I think I don't need to introduce to gamers like you, released a video game named Prey which was an amazing FPS made with an heavily modified version of the engine of Doom 3 and which used portals and gravity in an astounding way.
The game told us the story of Tommy Domasi, a cherokee who got abducted along with his girlfriend and his grandpa by aliens into an organic living spaceship called The Sphere.
There he discovers that aliens are harvesting Earth and that they use humans as food to feed The Sphere.
He used to reject his native american origins, but in The Sphere, he discovers his latent cherokee abilities.
As a cherokee, he is able to project his spirit out of his body to get past forcefields and solve puzzles.
When he desincarnates his spirit out of his body, he can shoot arrows with a bow.
When he dies, his spirit is sent into the world of spirits where he must shoot evil spirits to drain their health and spiritual energy before getting back into his body where he has left it into the material world.
After his first death, when he comes back into the material world, some evil spirits from the world of spirits follow him into the material world and possess bodies of dead humans who become creepy encounters.
The game is full of breathtaking scripted events, such as a Boeing which is tracted by The Sphere and which crashes into it in a spectacular scripted event.
The story is deep if you pay attention to it. The final encounter with The Mother brings memorable revelations but I don't want to steal away from you the experience of discovering it by yourself by playing the game so I will shut up about it. ;-)
The Sphere is huge! Sometimes you feel tiny into The Sphere and you are amazed at the gigantic surounding.
The design is beautiful and original, everything is living, since remember, The Sphere is an organic living spaceship and everything inside it is living, even weapons.
All of the weapons are organic living things which move into your hands, look at you, try to get out of your hands, try to bite you, that is funny and original.
To sum it all up: Prey is a great original FPS from 2006 made by Human Head Studio under contract for 3D Realms and Human Head Studio was developping a sequel: Prey 2, which was going to be a masterpiece in video games history!
This has no bearing on the case in question. I asked for an explanation, not a game review.

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MaximeMartyr: Actually, Prey 2 was so awesome and Bethesda was so impressed by Human Head Studio's skill that they decided to make Human Head Studio belong to them.
So it is a case of hostile takeover?

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MaximeMartyr: But Human Head Studio didn't want to belong to a publisher, they wanted to remain free to work with any publisher that they feel like, so they declined Bethesda's offer.
Ah, no, not so hostile then

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MaximeMartyr: Then Bethesda has done everything to sabotage Prey 2 even though it was almost achieved.
How? HHS declined their offer, and as you say they did not want any publisher.. How can Bethesda then sabotage the game?

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MaximeMartyr: Bethesda has requested always more changes to Prey 2 with impossible deadlines so Human Head Studio could never fulfill Bethesda's requests, Bethesda has stopped paying Human Head Studio so the developer was going bankruptcy, Bethesda has done everything to corner Human Head Studio and force them to accept to belong to Bethesda.
Ah, so now we are getting somewhere. So Bethesda is bankrolling the game? they are actually paying for it? So, contrary to what you said before, Bethesda is their publisher? This means that there are some contracts out there. Do you know the terms of the contracts? This is crucial info - you need to know what is offered and under which conditions.

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MaximeMartyr: Just the same that they did with Arkane. But unlike Arkane, Human Head Studio has stayed determined to not subdue to Bethesda dirty tricks.
What exactly did they do to Arkane (and please, no rubbish like "treated them like a woman")

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MaximeMartyr: Eventually, the contract between Human Head Studio and Bethesda came to a end but Bethesda owned Prey IP so Human Head Studio was not allowed to release Prey 2
OK, so HHS do not own the IP, we are now getting closer to something. Again, the crux of this would be which part who did not uphold their end of the contract.

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MaximeMartyr: and this masterpiece
Without actually playing the game, I can not say if it is a master piece or not. Remember, before release, No Mans Sky was also a masterpiece.

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MaximeMartyr: remains into a box while Bethesda said to the other developer that they enslaved, Arkane, to fuck Human Head Studio and to develop a new Prey and Arkane has accepted, this is why we now have this Prey masquerade coming.
Or maybe Bethesda needed to do it to recoup the monies they have thrown at HHS already? If they delivered as sub-par product, this might be the case. At this moment, this is just a big loss for them. Maybe even a money drain? I do not have the details to know.

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MaximeMartyr: This new "Prey" might be a great game, but it is not Prey. It is a counterfeit of Prey. Knowing that, I definitely will not buy it.
If Bethesda have the IP, then it is indeed the real Prey. And Hopefully it will be good. We need more good games.

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MaximeMartyr: Moreover, Bethesda has removed the original Prey from all stores as if they want to erase the original to make their counterfeit the only Prey out there.
See above

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MaximeMartyr: That is UN-FOR-GI-VABLE!
It seems like the rights issues here might be in a muddle, especially if it is shared between Bethesda and HHS. If this is the case - how do you know it is not HHS who now blocks the sales due to not cooperating with Bethesda?

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MaximeMartyr: I voted into the games wishes to make the original Prey come back but in the meanwhile, since there is no way to buy it currently, and since I really think that this good old game deserves some consideration instead of being kept into a dusty box by an incredibly mean publisher who has no consideration for video games, no consideration for developers, no consideration for players, I'm not going to give you a link to download it but I'm going to warmly recommend you to search where you can download it. ;-)
There is never any excuse for piracy. No matter how many smiley faces you put behind it, and as I have said, I already own and have played Prey

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MaximeMartyr: And don't even try to judge me. It will not make anyone lose money since Bethesda is keeping it away from markets. Am I wrong?
Since I still do not know the details of the case - I still have no idea

edit: want to wait a bit with this, but may as well do it now. Fun Fact - HHS did not design Prey, they were only hired to develop it based on designs given to them. The main design was years in the making (it was first announced in 1995, HHS came into the picture in 2001/2002), starting from Tom Hall, via Romero and finished within 3D Realms.... so the real Prey?
Post edited February 01, 2017 by amok