Posted February 07, 2020
GamezRanker
Disagreement Verboten!
Registered: Sep 2010
From United States
my name is catte
i touch your foods
Registered: Mar 2010
From United Kingdom
trentonlf
Easily amused
Registered: Apr 2014
From United States
Posted February 07, 2020
GamezRanker
Disagreement Verboten!
Registered: Sep 2010
From United States
Posted February 07, 2020
That said, I would also vote for lift if he got a big enough of a wagon.
RWarehall
Ja'loja!
Registered: Jan 2012
From United States
Posted February 07, 2020
There was a Seinfeld episode where George Costanza denied the "Bubble Buy" a pie piece in Trivial Pursuit because he answered "Moors" and the card said "Moops", an obvious typo.
In Monopoly people can trade properties. Would you keep playing with two people who every game trade the best properties with each so they alone complete sets and win every game?
How about 2 poker players where one player will always fold if his friend is in?
There are rules and then there is also the spirit of the rules. Breaking the spirit of the rules is still cheating.
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@Agent - You have been going strong at Lift almost entirely on the fact he has been voting you. That's the very definition of OMGUS. Make a good case. I think this is Town Lift. Yogs seems to have that about right. Scum Lift is "less committed" to his reads. It's subtle but the difference between Scum and Town Lift is his level of commitment to his case. Scum Lift equivocates more. That said, I'm not giving Lift a complete pass. He knows people have been on to his scum game so may have tried to correct that. Although I would have expected that change to come in the form of an unseen strategy, not something this subtle.
I've ISO's all the main players at this point, and I don't see a smoking gun. I have a weird feeling about Trent, but I can't find anything in an ISO. Closest I can come to explain it seems to be that he's "too sure" Agent is Town, but that's more a feeling than a fact.
I have a similar feeling about Yogs, but I always feel that way about Yogs. If it weren't for his well-explained Lift read, I'd be more willing to vote him. Remember when I said I'm a Lift Whisperer...Yogs sees what I was seeing. I don't like some of his other reads, again seems a little "too sure" about Agent's alignment + a couple other things I can't express because the explanations hurt Town more than they are conclusive. I'd consider him if someone can make a good case on why he's a better choice than Agent.
I guess I will at least ISO the new players starting with Caesar. I'm still inclined to give them a free pass out of etiquette, there is probably a line that can be crossed where I'd vote one of them Day 1 if they truly look scummy.
trentonlf
Easily amused
Registered: Apr 2014
From United States
Posted February 07, 2020
There was a Seinfeld episode where George Costanza denied the "Bubble Buy" a pie piece in Trivial Pursuit because he answered "Moors" and the card said "Moops", an obvious typo.
In Monopoly people can trade properties. Would you keep playing with two people who every game trade the best properties with each so they alone complete sets and win every game?
How about 2 poker players where one player will always fold if his friend is in?
There are rules and then there is also the spirit of the rules. Breaking the spirit of the rules is still cheating.
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@Agent - You have been going strong at Lift almost entirely on the fact he has been voting you. That's the very definition of OMGUS. Make a good case. I think this is Town Lift. Yogs seems to have that about right. Scum Lift is "less committed" to his reads. It's subtle but the difference between Scum and Town Lift is his level of commitment to his case. Scum Lift equivocates more. That said, I'm not giving Lift a complete pass. He knows people have been on to his scum game so may have tried to correct that. Although I would have expected that change to come in the form of an unseen strategy, not something this subtle.
I've ISO's all the main players at this point, and I don't see a smoking gun. I have a weird feeling about Trent, but I can't find anything in an ISO. Closest I can come to explain it seems to be that he's "too sure" Agent is Town, but that's more a feeling than a fact.
I have a similar feeling about Yogs, but I always feel that way about Yogs. If it weren't for his well-explained Lift read, I'd be more willing to vote him. Remember when I said I'm a Lift Whisperer...Yogs sees what I was seeing. I don't like some of his other reads, again seems a little "too sure" about Agent's alignment + a couple other things I can't express because the explanations hurt Town more than they are conclusive. I'd consider him if someone can make a good case on why he's a better choice than Agent.
I guess I will at least ISO the new players starting with Caesar. I'm still inclined to give them a free pass out of etiquette, there is probably a line that can be crossed where I'd vote one of them Day 1 if they truly look scummy.
2) I've stopped being wishy washy when I believe someone is Town, I've caused more problems for myself by second guessing my reads in too many games. Now any read is subject to change, but as of right now I would be hard pressed to change my read.
3) I don't subscribe to the belief that new players get a free pass Day 1. Being lynched is a great learning tool for someone, and saying being new gives them a free pass Day 1 means you are cheating them of learning. How do we know that someone who is new and gets close to lynch will not change people's mind? What if they really are scum and don't realize that they need to improve their game more because they get a free pass on Day 1? Anyone that steps into a mafia game is fair game IMO to be lynched Day 1, new or not.
GamezRanker
Disagreement Verboten!
Registered: Sep 2010
From United States
Posted February 07, 2020
It's not cheating unless it breaks the ACTUAL rules....it might be seen as exploitative/d*ckish play by others, but it's not cheating unless something someone does breaks a rule.
RWarehall: There are rules and then there is also the spirit of the rules. Breaking the spirit of the rules is still cheating. As said above, it'd have to break a rule put in place....so even if you yourself or anyone else feels such is it's cheating, it's not cheating unless it break a rule/the OP rules it as such.
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trentonlf: 3) I don't subscribe to the belief that new players get a free pass Day 1. Being lynched is a great learning tool for someone, and saying being new gives them a free pass Day 1 means you are cheating them of learning. How do we know that someone who is new and gets close to lynch will not change people's mind? What if they really are scum and don't realize that they need to improve their game more because they get a free pass on Day 1? Anyone that steps into a mafia game is fair game IMO to be lynched Day 1, new or not. Agreed 100%
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RWarehall
Ja'loja!
Registered: Jan 2012
From United States
Posted February 07, 2020
3) I don't subscribe to the belief that new players get a free pass Day 1. Being lynched is a great learning tool for someone, and saying being new gives them a free pass Day 1 means you are cheating them of learning. How do we know that someone who is new and gets close to lynch will not change people's mind? What if they really are scum and don't realize that they need to improve their game more because they get a free pass on Day 1? Anyone that steps into a mafia game is fair game IMO to be lynched Day 1, new or not.
I ISO'd Caesar. He clearly has expressed Mafia experience and I really don't like his 1-issue Day 1 (Lift v Agent). I'm not convinced he is scum but I will drop my Day 1 free pass based on his past experience plus what I consider a subpar Day 1.
trentonlf
Easily amused
Registered: Apr 2014
From United States
Posted February 07, 2020
I ISO'd Caesar. He clearly has expressed Mafia experience and I really don't like his 1-issue Day 1 (Lift v Agent). I'm not convinced he is scum but I will drop my Day 1 free pass based on his past experience plus what I consider a subpar Day 1.
RWarehall
Ja'loja!
Registered: Jan 2012
From United States
Posted February 07, 2020
So, I've done a once through on everyone at this point...
Right now, here's my challenge...
Agent v Caesar
Caesar - Give me more than just Lift v Agent.
Agent - Give me more than OMGUS voting on you or surface level reads like "wants no lynch" "claimed Ravenclaw" lynch him...
The prettiest princess wins the lynch!
Right now, here's my challenge...
Agent v Caesar
Caesar - Give me more than just Lift v Agent.
Agent - Give me more than OMGUS voting on you or surface level reads like "wants no lynch" "claimed Ravenclaw" lynch him...
The prettiest princess wins the lynch!
Microfish_1
I'm not a duck
Registered: Dec 2017
From United States
Posted February 07, 2020
Again, this is in answer to posts as I read them.
yogsloth: I think agent is town, and I think this post is scum microfish sandbagging his vote, possibly for a hammer position.
No idea what the last bit about SPF is supposed to signify in this context, nor why he altered the name that way, though. @yogs:
Why do you think this is so? as it so happens, i was mostly afk from then until now. I didn't want to leave my vote where scum could hammer when I went to bed.
I'm curious as to why you think I'm scum. The only obvious thing I can see is my miswording my one question to not clearly enough state that I didn't want written answers, just thinking.
See https://www.gog.com/forum/general/looking_for_players_for_a_forum_deduction_game/post3
I'm many hours behind.
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Caesar's comment in the signup thread said,
a) has lost his touch or
b) hasn't lost his touch.
Similarly I don't think this shows any strong evidence that he
c) couldn't be scum or
d) could be scum.
Also,
I was continuing the food joke from last game, where GR never got anything to eat except condiments and a Popsicle.
I like the statement here,
ATM (post 403) I think Caesar might be 3rd party, but he is right that the 2nd guessing of everything is true not only of suspect players, like himself and Agent, but includes those who are the most talkative or who are the best analyzers.
Good Analysis =/= Auto town.
Agent's reaction post is quite nice. I appreciate it. I feel better about him now, and as of post 420 do not overly wish to vote Agent or Lift. Again, I think Agentcarr is 3rd party, maybe scum, maybe not, and I put Caesar in the same boat.
I read lift as leaning town.
Joppo? meh...everything before post 151 is total fluff, as is his 168. 240 has meat, and points out one reason i supect Caesar. I want to see more of him before voting. Neutral.
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Everyone I haven't mentioned yet. Thank you for the responses to my questions. Caught up now.
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I would vote for agent to avoid a NL, as even 3rd party (hostile or not) does not harm the town's WC. (yes, I am not talking about the lav.)
I would vote for Caesar, as he looks 3rd-party or scummy to me. I'd rather not, as this is his first time playing with us and a D1 lunch might turn him against the game, but he does have prior experience.
I'll go along with trent in that any lunch is better than none--but nearly only if it isn't town.
No idea what the last bit about SPF is supposed to signify in this context, nor why he altered the name that way, though.
Why do you think this is so? as it so happens, i was mostly afk from then until now. I didn't want to leave my vote where scum could hammer when I went to bed.
I'm curious as to why you think I'm scum. The only obvious thing I can see is my miswording my one question to not clearly enough state that I didn't want written answers, just thinking.
See https://www.gog.com/forum/general/looking_for_players_for_a_forum_deduction_game/post3
I'm many hours behind.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Caesar's comment in the signup thread said,
Why not give this a try? I would like to sign up for spot #10. I have played mafia before, a long time ago, just not on the GOG forums.
I don't think this means that he a) has lost his touch or
b) hasn't lost his touch.
Similarly I don't think this shows any strong evidence that he
c) couldn't be scum or
d) could be scum.
Also,
I was continuing the food joke from last game, where GR never got anything to eat except condiments and a Popsicle.
I like the statement here,
Nice not-so-subtle reminder to second-guess absolutely everything.
The first game i played HSL (HypersomniacLive) talked an awful ton, and had me thoroughly pocketed until the end. He was scum and one of the most vocal players, but his arguments makes sense. Why am I bringing this up? ATM (post 403) I think Caesar might be 3rd party, but he is right that the 2nd guessing of everything is true not only of suspect players, like himself and Agent, but includes those who are the most talkative or who are the best analyzers.
Good Analysis =/= Auto town.
Agent's reaction post is quite nice. I appreciate it. I feel better about him now, and as of post 420 do not overly wish to vote Agent or Lift. Again, I think Agentcarr is 3rd party, maybe scum, maybe not, and I put Caesar in the same boat.
I read lift as leaning town.
Joppo? meh...everything before post 151 is total fluff, as is his 168. 240 has meat, and points out one reason i supect Caesar. I want to see more of him before voting. Neutral.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Everyone I haven't mentioned yet. Thank you for the responses to my questions. Caught up now.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I would vote for agent to avoid a NL, as even 3rd party (hostile or not) does not harm the town's WC. (yes, I am not talking about the lav.)
I would vote for Caesar, as he looks 3rd-party or scummy to me. I'd rather not, as this is his first time playing with us and a D1 lunch might turn him against the game, but he does have prior experience.
I'll go along with trent in that any lunch is better than none--but nearly only if it isn't town.
ConsulCaesar
Crossing the Rubicon
Registered: Jan 2017
From Spain
Posted February 07, 2020
Do you believe Caesar to be Slytherin or simply non-Gryffindor?
Not only he alluded a few times to the possibility of a "3rd party, possibly a survivor", there is also that bit you copied above "I also said what I thought about the Houses and a potential third party... Not much I can say without going into claiming"
Could be a neutral 3rd-party after all, could also be pure WIFOM. It is hard to gauge that with an unknown variable like him. I need time to learn his playstyle. Still my confidence that he must not be from town hasn't diminished in the least, only my certainty over his Slytherin card did.
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Now, for something completely different: @Lift's bandwagon. Made because of his zelousness against claiming jokes, OMGUS, and his anger when those jokes have been repeated. Looks like something made out of thin air, with a hint of smoke & ashes, tied together spidery silk.
@Pooka started it for the zelousness? (dunno exactly) and, maybe memories of how Lift used to be? One vote is OK, but let us check how is the wagon doing afterwards. Mmmmm... Ohhhhhhh, what a nice surprise.
After the inicial suspicion, had been thinking that @AgentCarr was just a joker, but things become curioser and curioser. Still, it was @ConsulCaesar who jumped on the bandwagon AFTER @AgentCarr's OMGUS vote.
My reason to vote Lift is his overreaction at something that at the time seemed meaningless.
As for me being third party... why would I insist on the "three Houses vs Slytherine" if I was one?
ConsulCaesar
Crossing the Rubicon
Registered: Jan 2017
From Spain
Posted February 07, 2020
Why so much talk about my previous experience? If I'm a veteran I'm a veteran. If I'm a noob I'm a noob. If I play a suicide style... you get. But it's something that nobody can corroborate. Like I can't make anything of how you guys played in the previous threads that I haven't read.
Microfish_1
I'm not a duck
Registered: Dec 2017
From United States
Posted February 07, 2020
vote agentcarr
For the reasons mentioned above. he might be town, but his play isn't pro-town, and thus he should be highly suspect.
Caesar's points seem good unrefuted, and we ought to get someone.
idk, i'm awfully indecisive at this point. "who to believe?" is the question of the day. now if only the scum would shout out their names, ranks, serial numbers, favorite cereals, and partners in this game, I'd be a whole lot happier.
What bothers me is that I got a response, but I don't see one here. Maybe the new page bug is ruining things again :O
For the reasons mentioned above. he might be town, but his play isn't pro-town, and thus he should be highly suspect.
Caesar's points seem good unrefuted, and we ought to get someone.
idk, i'm awfully indecisive at this point. "who to believe?" is the question of the day. now if only the scum would shout out their names, ranks, serial numbers, favorite cereals, and partners in this game, I'd be a whole lot happier.
What bothers me is that I got a response, but I don't see one here. Maybe the new page bug is ruining things again :O
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany