Additional reply to Pookina, reply to Joppo:
++++

Since I suspect everyone not fully cleared anyways, they very likely won't be able to "trip me up" easily this way.

Likely, but we will then have a smaller player pool and be more likely to find scum the next time around(if we lynch D1 and don't hit scum, I mean).

++++

I have had fun with you in these games(even when you're just observer and I read your posts to the QT after the game) as well, little joppo buddy. :)
(Gilligan references ftw)

Was gonna vote NL today moreso than anything else(to go with ZFR's idea) if I couldn't find someone to suspect, but this post seemed a bit odd to me:

This, to me, seems like something a scum!trent might say to get people off his wagon(possible lamist, etc).

Actually, ZFR seemed to ONLY be advocating for "playing by the numbers" re town doing ONE NL during the game. Elsewise he has mainly been seeming to advocate for a normal mafia game as per usual.

Also you seem to be thinking ZFR has some chance at being town, but as per the above bit: you'd possibly want him to be the next lynch anyways, even if he might be town?

(If so, why? If not, then please explain what you think or know that I got wrong?)

+++++

That said:

Vote Trent

(I believe Trent now has 4 votes...everyone, keep that in mind when contemplating casting a vote)

+++++

Also to everyone: Lift's post 210 seems to me like it's painting anyone who votes NL as scum......what does everyone else think about that bit of that post?

Hello people, this is just to inform you all that I've been AFK all day helping a relative with some health matters. Nothing troublesome but I spent the whole day in a hospital so I will just go to bed and get back in the game properly tomorrow morning.
See you then.

Wrong. Just Bucktooth. Korotan gave a reason for his NL vote that sounded genuine. After which I removed my vote on him. While bucktooth contradicted himself - his vote came out of the blue and doesn't fit with the other stuff he writes. And he didn't explain the discrepancy.

However, you are right that a NL-vote looks a priori scummy to me, since in my experiences scum are the only ones that are interested in leaving town in the dark and extending the D1 chaos to another Day. ZFR gave a mathematical reason why it is different in this game, so the impression NL=scummy may not be entirely true in this game. But still, bucktooth's vote looks off. Check his post where he votes for yourself and compare it to what else he wrote. I guess you will see the discrepancy.

Because he doesn't like bucktooth voting NL in the way he did? I don't either. His vote makes no sense in the context of his post.

I don't either. And I advocated NL.

Or rather, I don't like the text that accompanied the vote.

I don't have as many games with Trent as you and a few others did so I don't know his playstyle as deeply as you, but it didn't come across to me like that. When I read it it got me thinking that was just Trent expressing his annoyance at the lack of consensus — first with the D1NL debacle followed by this "who has an advantage in a 10vs2 vanilla game" matter, and also his displeasure at arguing about the setup.
You might be right, and Trent has fooled me like a pro in the past. But I'd rather hold onto my original view than simply follow, otherwise I'm not contributing anything. In past games I noticed that Trent doesn't hold back his exasperation, and also that he can easily fake that when scum. So exasperation doesn't tell me much. A nudge towards scum, I think.

That is sensible. Manufacturing a derpclear isn't that hard. It's so easy in fact that new players do it all the time :-)
And as Dedo said he is not immune to mistakes when scum.
So he's not clear in my book.
Same as Pooka, I think that derpclearing him based on the 3-scum guess is awfully naive.

o.0
Are you... sort of throwing the towel?

Yes, a Trent-ZFR team is definitely the least likely combination possible and one's flip would definitely help us make sense of the other.

Hmmm I gotta reread both of them. Joe didn't stand out to me so far, but with all the back and forth between Trent and ZFR I think he just slipped my attention.
I know I am not one to say but I wish Pooka would post a bit more. If we both make it to the Night I guess I will ISO him toNight, unless something major comes up. So far I see no damning evidence to vote him.

I never throw in the towel, but I would be surprised if I’m not the lynch today as I’m the easy target now and on Day 1 that’s usually the lynch.

Sorry for my limited posting, I still have family at the house. I’ll be away most of today, but I’ll do my best to find some time to post again.

Other than ZFR my gut is telling me Gym at the moment, just fells s little off to me.

Am I dumb for starting to have seconds thoughts?

no? i for one see nothing worse than tvt in trent/zfr. maybe i am just blind (always a possibility), but the case against trent seems quite farfetched at best?certainly not more than hearsay, expecially when connected with a player's past history of not caring for d1 (though this could be said of many of us, it seems), not repeating himself, etc

but i'm falling into bed. because i've fsallen asleep 3x writing these lines.

I did want to address all of these because I understand where my post comes off as flip-flop like:

The voting NL was more in the hopes that if the NL went through than everyone would get it out of their system and the game would function normally starting with D2. Granted I realize there is no guarantee to this, as people could very much push for another NL down the line if we come to another even player crossroad.

Also: I am having a hard time really finding anyone wagon worthy even this close to the end of day 1, Granted this may be due to my lack of activity compared to last game(my opinion only, I have no official numbers to back up). The biggest wagon right now is for trent, but i cant corollate his strong anti-nl position enough to scum behavior to justify jumping on the wagon.

So in closing: it was a placeholder vote, a lazy one admittedly and one that understandably draws suspicion to me considering it contradicts my previous posts.

If I HAD to vote for someone with what we know right now, I would vote pooka just based on the fact that their bragging rights scum team was just "who opposed ZFRs no lynch idea". I dont personally feel it is enough for me to vote for them, but that is my strongest feeling on anyone right now.

Do you really think Scum-ZFR would go on so persistent about his mathematically motivated game? I think the focus on mathematics is quite typical ZFR and could be Town ZFR wanting to optimize the chances of Town, no matter the consequences for the gameplay.

So, if you're Town, are you sure that your scum-reading of ZFR isn't just OMGUS? And why Gym? What is off about him?

We have 24 hours left. I'll wait for a reply before casting my stone. But I won't let this go to no-lynch if I can avoid it.

I still see this as contradiction. You are aware of the dangers of NL. You are worried that scum might hammer NL home. And yet you hope that NL goes through. Which is playing into scums hands, by your own reasoning before that vote. A dangerous placeholder vote indeed! If you are Town.

Not sure whether that is inexperience or alignment, which leads to the self-contradiction here.

You're also no first-time player either. So the 'let's not lynch new players on D1' protection doesn't hold. So I'm torn between voting you (because your explanation doesn't really resolve the contradiction) and voting trent (because he has some red flags and his flip would give us information, especially if he flips scum).

But my vote would put trent at L-2, which I am not willing to do yet. So, for now,

vote bucktoothgamer

1. My contradiction was definitely not based on alignment. Possibly based on inexperience in that I thought it would be better to vote SOMETHING instead of not adding any weight to the discussion.

2. I expect NO protection from being a lynch candidate, because youre right this is not my first game on this board.

I dont expect this to sway your vote away from me. Im still not convinced this trent wagon is the way to go so I'd rather eat a vote than have the wrong person get lynched, but you're right that a placeholder vote should not go against my own convictions of whats for the best of my team.

Vote Pookina

for reasons I stated before with regards to their braggingrights post. Also for the fact that the pooka I see now is much sharper, brazen, and motivated than the one I saw last game. Granted last game could have been a one off for them and they truly were discouraged by getting a vanilla role in a PR game, but they went from remorsing that they feel they lack the knowledge how to play the game after a couple years of play to being completely strong in their convictions this time around.

Sorry, let me do this properly:

Vote Pookina