Yes, that would be what my role description indicates.

Sorry, lots of distractions. Hopefully no screwups in this post.

I addressed that here: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_forum_mafia_29_the_deep_smelly_dungeon/post742

Note that my name is also at least mostly in reference to a video game (never played, so maybe it all is), so I'd be a little bit leery of assuming Leonard is guilty on his name being real-ier than others. Though I do need to go back and read him more carefully, I still don't see voting on him today. One would have to explain how he killed on N1 despite being role blocked. With Hijack there's at least a built-in answer to that question with the 'berserker' bit.

JMich could just be flat-out lying.

As for wyrm, I'm reluctant but think I have to say that my investigation discovered he was a doctor. So...hey, Lift probably wasn't lying after all. Whoops! Lucky break though, as it turned out.

I'm leaning town on Wyrm, but can't be sure. QA's choice of him is just a little too perfect. But that said, I can't explain why he would have targeted Lift N1 if he were scum scum.

I don't think anyone who knows about Wyrm's N2 or esp. N3 activities should talk at this point, however. I believe it was Hijack who pointed out that the safe assumption is that he can't repeat targets. As the pool shrinks, that matters more.

Yog has expressed in conversation that he didn't agree with Dedo's restriction that he couldn't protect himself last game, so perhaps he protected himself last night. Perhaps it was me. Perhaps it was dedo after all and the kill was strong-manned. WIFOM away.

But maybe it is important to know his role so everyone can try and puzzle the pieces together. So there it is.

For me it's still Hijack vs. JMich, and if we can settle on one, I'd be inclined to go for QA. Alignment cop still seems too strong for an already-strong town in this game, and would have some utility for either scum or a setup with two neutral teams. And, again, I'll have to re-read my PMs later, but his description seems different from how I remember mine.

It's occurred to me Hijack doesn't even have to be lying about being neutral. That piece could be true and he still a threat to the ring/town, a la Lift.

Wife went to the meeting while I took the child on a walk and then put the child to bed. Time to catch up and do some work here.

-----

Some of this has already been hijacked (ha!) by Bler and CSPVG.

-Assuming everyone is telling the truth, and all the neutrals are just survivors that need to be alive when there is only one faction left, then everyone won before Adalia got lynched. The absurdity of this conclusion should be apparent to everyone. If the real win condition turns out to be that we need to deliberately No Lynch, I vote we find yogsloth's house and have ourselves a real lynch. Judging from previous stories, his wife might well nod her ahead and comment "He did have it coming." JMich might get in an "I Told You So" after advocating for No Lynch on Day 3.

-Therefore, at least one (and almost certainly more) of the people currently alive are anti-town. The obvious answer would be one of the neutral claims; the idea of having a "neutral" team seems absurd on the face of it, even if there are 3 claims to it (one confirmed).

-There is apparently a lot of crazy [Bleep] going on in this game, but I find my breaking point is where Zarthax's win condition is the basic Neutral Survivor. I don't see how he could possibly allow any townies to survive when our flavor objective is to destroy the ring. I have no idea why he didn't flip up as some variation of Serial Killer.

-Reading the claims from JMich, Hijack, and then Leonard, it almost feels like there was a contest to see who could come up with the most out-there claim and still not get lynched. JMich goes "I'm a good aligned demon!", then Hijack claims neutral orc champion with dual night reaction powers, and then Leonard is all "Well, I'm not even from this story."

-JMich's claim seems closest to bald faced lie. A pet demon would just about be the perfect companion for Zarthax. Hijack or CSPVG would be next, with neither being a very friendly orc.

-You know the worst part about Leonard's claim? The random-ass objects that showed up last night seem to support it. Why the heck is Zarthax keeping an alcove full of spare sofa cushions? Not to mention the umbrellas, used refrigerator boxes, and who-knows-what Quad had. Arthur Dent showing up somehow fits right in with the rest of it, and I suppose Dent wouldn't be at all shocked to have his mind read after traveling with us for awhile. The biggest hole in Leonard's story would be his stats; it is hard for me to fathom Arthur Dent having such high stats. The second issue I have is how some of his comments seem to show more information than he seems to want to let on; maybe just he's just making faulty assumptions again. CSPVG providing the Martin Freeman link to Bilbo Baggins (something I didn't know) indicates that maybe yogsloth did indeed add this. Ugh.

-On further reflection, I'm really not buying that there are 3 powerless vanilla floating around in this game. I'll believe in a token vanilla (Adalia)(partly because I have to), but I don't think Leonard and JMich are nearly as powerless as they claim. That twitchy spot between my shoulder blades keeps waiting for JMich to bust out some kind of day vig.

-Bler, if you would be so kind, please full claim. You've dropped lots of information, and I'm pretty sure your role is Flavor Cop, but I'd like to see it neatly laid out by you.

-I've more or less covered why I'm suspecting yogsloth as an extra player. I linked the reference I saw where a game had a hidden player, though it seems very odd that yog would use something like that. As far as not having a good-aligned yogsloth: he's got a soul eating crystal (screams of despair, anyone?), he doesn't really care about our lives (and has actively called for blood and killing), he's enlisted a couple of orcs, a demon, a universe traveller, and the Sauron rip-off of this flavor world. Really, I don't see why we ARE trusting him. However, that's a distraction for the moment, and thus why I only advocate trying to lynch him if anyone thinks we should No Lynch.

-Since Bler has now basically retracted his request for silence about my role, and I'm the last to make some sort of claim, I'll go ahead and full claim.

I am Elianduil Farna’a’thea, Elf Wizard (TOWN DOCTOR) STR 3 / AGI 5 / CHR 4 / INT 10. I have several restrictions and a nifty trick or two up my sleeve. No, I'm not going to be more specific. My protection is a magic shield that is visible to the target.

I figured Lift was appearing very town during Day 1, and as has already been said, he tends to be an early NK victim for appearing town. I was rather irked when I finally managed to work in a breadcrumb on Day 2, only to have Trent and Lift get into it about whether protection is visible right afterwards. I'm honestly a little surprised Bler was the first to name my role out in the open. Since everyone appeared to still be questioning whether the protection was even a thing, I decided to keep my head down.

Illuminate me.

Everything can be justified with WIFOM, even the fact that you're trying to direct things around 2 people while only slightly mentioning another couple and ignoring the rest.

True, though to assume I'm not town you pretty much either have to assume both QA and I are scum, or that he's a naive cop.

In the former case you'd have to assume he used his N2 action setting up a possible claim and why it would seem scum have 2 cops or cop-likes. Both are possible but highly unlikely - particularly together, no?

And in the latter case you'd still have to explain why I wasn't the slightest bit worried he was going to out me on D3.

Or am I missing your implication?

A bit. My point was less about whom might be a combination of scum, and more along the lines of you driving the game around. I'll credit you for doing a better job than booksie-wooksie though.

Something doesn't seem to add up about HijacK's claim. If everything is as he says, what's the point of having the berserker ability? If he's already dead, then he's already lost, so why have him kill someone. It seems pointless. I realize in other cases, like vengeful, that someone kills someone else after they die, but they are still trying to help their team - they still have a chance of winning. With HijacK he wouldn't, which doesn't make sense.
Another thing, I was jus reading up on the mafiascum wiki, and it says that survivors are usually not given any bonuses, like me. So why would HijacK have one?


I wonder what Lifthrasil's win condition was.

I'll agree there are an array of bad habits built into my play- impatience and overconfidence being two. Obsessiveness being another. I've succumbed to the former two less so this game than last, but the obsessiveness is...

I would say some of it is a difference in preference for pace/volume. Frankly, I'd be happy if someone else wants to step up and drive more, which is part of why I gave in and revealed on Wyrm's role - he didn't seem to object and at least a few people were pushing for me to stop concealing. I'm not entirely sure it was wise to reveal, though he seemed to have some extra WIFOM to add to the sauce. And in any case, now I don't feel solely responsible for the info.

Indeed, have at it.

Plus, at this point I'm the only person in this game who went to the wire last game. I've been playing 7 of the last 8 weeks, and it's been wearying at times on top of RL. I think CSP is next closest with 6 of 8.

As for full claim, that's coming soon, I just can't rely on uninterrupted time until daughter is in bed and don't want to say anything that relies on digging through my PMs until then. Yog and I have chatted quite a bit about the last game and RL, so my thread from him is quite long to scroll through.

I'm not ennntirely sure I trust Wyrm, though JMich being scum relies on fewer assumptions than Hijack being scum. So I find his argument tempting in that respect. And if Wyrm is scum, I kinda think he's earned the win with a great performance. That's not to say I'm ready to throw in the towel at all, but if it comes down to 50/50 I may go his way.

Ah, bite me. :P

I've been accused of trying to steer the game enough for the time being, thank you very much. And no, it hasn't happened this game because I haven't been trying to do it much. With Bler's latest post asking for some help in this regard, I suppose I should step back up though; he'd been doing a masterful job. For example, I hadn't detected Lift as scum.

Not sure if I'm doing this in one long piece or multiple shorter ones. Also have to be wary I don't get myself mod-killed.

Original PM:
Doing it for the heroic ballads, glory, babes, etc. As noted I am Sir Cloudsley Shovel, Human Knight. I have middlin' brains and use them to determine what job someone has based on what they tote. They know I've been there, since apparently I'm clumsy despite having above average AGI.

I haven't figured that piece out, but whatever - I think CSP listed my stats right and at this point everyone knows I leave a trail, so it's clear both are true whether or not it makes perfect sense. It is a nice game mechanic, regardless.

In any case, I'm an actual Role Cop. I get a list of items plus an actual specific note on someone's role. I don't just have to guess from the items. Though so far they're specific enough I could probably manage that safely. I expressed some regret to Yog at being the cop again. Ha ha ha. I was so young and naive then.

N1 PM...uh, how much can I say? One interesting flavor note was that QA's backpack has a tag sewn on by his mom. Not sure if he knows that or not. I apparently found his pack outside his camp (missed that detail on earlier reads), seemingly intentionally buried under troll dung. Yog also added a joke implying the bag had fuzzy handcuffs for non-business purposes. Nothing sinister about the items themselves.

Feeling glad I wasn't quizzed on my N1 PM flavor details, I guess.

N2 PM: CSP's pack was dropped during the fight with the goblins- as my own was dropped somewhere as well. Don't think I actually found his camp from the text. Not a whole lot of detail about 'where' or surroundings. He scans me while I'm going through his bag. I go through quickly, and Dedo spots me leaving the scene and says "There you are!" - not exactly, but basically that sort of common exclamation.

When I found my pack dumped all over there was some sort of joke related to...Caddyshack 2? I didn't get it and had to google it.

N3 PM: I made a fort out of folding chairs. Found Wyrm making some sort of unspecified base. His pack was unguarded. Was hoping for a nice, clean result that would make D4 action easy. Did not get it.

If that didn't put everyone to sleep and there are questions, sure, go for it.


I know I was the person who questioned Trent's choice to use his power on N1 on dedo as a tactical choice, but looking at it now that was one hell of a gut read, btw.

Keep in mind the ability may not be to benefit him at all - it would make sense as a game balance design to punish careless play by scum, whether or not it benefited Hijack himself. They hit someone one night, assume that person was protected by a doctor and hit him again the next night without investigating assuming the doctor can't revisit, and voila. Or they hit him once and then vig unwittingly hits him. Doesn't help him a whit, sure, but still a neat feature imo.

That said, I think the question is what the hell is this particular role doing in this game. I'll admit to having uncharitable thoughts earlier - part of why I was trying to get Wyrm to talk about his 'Evil Yog' theory was to see if it would reveal what Evil Wyrm's strat to victory would be.

But...now I'm having second thoughts too. I just re-read all Leonard's posts, and similar to JMich/Wyrm last night, I don't sense any major slips at all. Some confusion certainly, but then I got to play the game with a lot more info than he had. And then there's the furniture.

His most interesting post was #156 (give or take): At risk of opening the door to crazy town, I think maybe we have to think about if there's some meaning there after all. Think about it - other than maybe dedo/wyrm everyone else seems to have something about their role that makes them highly suspect. What if no one at the table IS lying?

Or maybe more likely does that post point to 2 scum + 3 independents? And if so lord I hope CSP wasn't bluffing about being town vs neutral or the whole read will be off. My next idea is even weirder so I won't even mention it.

But if it is 2 + 3 and CSP doesn't want to correct his statement, then my first feeling is that maybe we have to trust both Leon and Hijack as the two remaining neutral on the table. Which would take us back to JMich, as the only person left at the table without some other night action, who did conveniently go un-blocked.

Personally I'd even be willing to extend a guarantee we wouldn't nail CSP on LAL if he is neutral and has a non-combative win condition, though obv. he'd need a majority for that to be worth anything and not just me. But it strikes me as potentially important enough to offer the deal, even if the answer is that he's really town.

Sigh. Anyway, I'm going to go watch Netflix and try not to think about this game at all until tomorrow.

Nvm on the offer to CSP. In actually thinking about it several significant problems emerged.

I'm going to sleep on it (and hopefully actually sleep, not dwell), but inclined to vote JMich on the morrow barring something new on the table.

You are book#2. Booksie-wooksie is adalia.
If book#2 sounds like crap, I can always call you booky.
My PM does not specifically state I am a survivor, and neither does it state I am of any team.

F*&%ing BS! Broke the 10 minute rule and my posts got combined. I may end up mod killed.

Ah well, even if I get mod killed the game carries on since I'm of no team. But more regarding my PM:
@Leo, Lift's flip did not state he was a survivor either, but being of no team it's safe to assume he had to survive. You see, the difference between our roles is that a survivor has to live to a certain day to fulfill his win condition (at least in my experience with them, I could be wrong for all I know) while I have to be alive at the very end. What exactly does your win condition state? Be as accurate as possible.

And of course I break the 10 minute rule when everybody's offline. You all go to bed too soon...