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francksteel: I am a white man born an living in Europe, and yes, just because of that - whatever may be my own qualities, merits or flaws as a human - I have way easier time everyday of my life than any other group.
Than go to Africa or China. And let's see if you white and male "privilege" will help you there. Heck - go and try to live a day in your own country without your home, money, or ID, like lots of other white homless people do. Join Yellow Jackets, to become even a little bit useful.
Post edited January 18, 2020 by LootHunter
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francksteel: What a great human being you are.
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Yunipuma: Such good neo-liberal rant you had there! Great job, sir!
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francksteel: If one (still vastly hypothetic) day, white males suffer just half what other people endure every day, you will just not be able to survive.
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Yunipuma: Because you were talking to a russin, I'll say this: after what United Europe did to Russia in 1941-1945 (and yes, it WAS United Europe - under different banner, of course), we will endure anything. By the way, your words gives me impression you are one of migrants to Europe, not a native dweller.
So, you're telling me that in Russia, it's worse to be a white male than to be black girl ? It's worse to be a white heterosexual than a muslim gay ? I'm quite sure it's not the case.

Oh, no, you're just saying that white men of 1940-1945 where so much racists and/or anti-communists that they even killed and/or raped white people (but not as "white" as they were, not as capitalist as they were).
So you've just proven my point again.

Well, I must also admit (without a second of doubt) that it's not really better today, not in term of mass killing of course (although I'm quite sure that capitalism will kill a lot more of people in the next decades than nazis+soviets+maoists, you have a lot of references, some in english here : https://blogs.mediapart.fr/jean-marc-b/blog/261217/victimes-du-capitalisme-un-devoir-de-memoire, of how much capitalism is already killing people. And no, I don't think a worldwide "communism" as seen in Russia or China would be better, I just think there are lots of other economics systems that would do better than any of those two)

Thanks again a lot.

Please, do continue.
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francksteel: I am a white man born an living in Europe, and yes, just because of that - whatever may be my own qualities, merits or flaws as a human - I have way easier time everyday of my life than any other group.
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LootHunter: Than go to Africa or China. And let's see if you white and male "privilege" will help you there. Heck - go and try to live a day in your own country without your home, money, or ID, like lots of other white homless people do. Join Yellow Jackets, to become even a little bit useful.
Well, as I said earlier, it will be much more easy for me in Africa or China to be a white male hetero than to be :
- a white male homo
- a white female homo/hetero
- a black male homo
- a black female homo/hetero.

go and try to live a day in your own country without your home, money, or ID,
And if you are JUST a bit intellectually honest, it will be easier for a white male without a home, money, or ID in my country than for a black/female without home, money or ID.

Again, thanks for proving I'm right!
Post edited January 18, 2020 by francksteel
I don't think it matters who would have it easier when they have no home, money or ID; anybody in that situation is having a bad time of it regardless of race or gender.

Also I don't see that it's useful to discuss who has more or less racism against them, the fact is nobody, no matter what race, should have racism directed at them.
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francksteel: it will be much more easy for me in Africa or China to be a white male hetero than to be :
- a white male homo
- a white female homo/hetero
- a black male homo
- a black female homo/hetero.
No, it won't. Also, you left out black male hetero. And didn't evn mentioned Asians. Why?

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francksteel: And if you are JUST a bit intellectually honest, it will be easier for a white male without a home, money, or ID in my country than for a black/female without home, money or ID.
I AM intellectually honest. It's you, who doesn't know (or doesn't want to know) about dozens of organizations that help homless non-white people, illegal migrants especially. White people are left on their own.
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Yunipuma: Such good neo-liberal rant you had there! Great job, sir!

Because you were talking to a russin, I'll say this: after what United Europe did to Russia in 1941-1945 (and yes, it WAS United Europe - under different banner, of course), we will endure anything. By the way, your words gives me impression you are one of migrants to Europe, not a native dweller.
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francksteel: So, you're telling me that in Russia, it's worse to be a white male than to be black girl ? It's worse to be a white heterosexual than a muslim gay ? I'm quite sure it's not the case.
No, he is saying that even the blackes gayest muslim transgender or whatever group you think is most oppressed in Europe today, doesn't know half of hardship Russians endured (and continue to endure in some cases).

Also, did you just implied that muslims aren't white?
Post edited January 18, 2020 by LootHunter
low rated
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devoras: anybody in that situation is having a bad time of it regardless of race or gender.
It's always hard to judge how harder (and to put a one-dimensional figure for it) it is for one or another when in such situation, but If you can read french:

http://www.ch-le-vinatier.fr/orspere-samdarra/rhizome/anciens-numeros/rhizome-n11-la-souffrance-est-elle-sexuee/etre-une-femme-sdf-est-ce-different-1639.html

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/droits-des-femmes/j-ai-ete-violee-70-fois-en-17-ans-de-rue-le-grand-tabou-des-agressions-sexuelles-sur-les-femmes-sdf_2345935.html
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francksteel: So, you're telling me that in Russia, it's worse to be a white male than to be black girl ? It's worse to be a white heterosexual than a muslim gay ? I'm quite sure it's not the case.
Not at all. I'm only telling you that you do not know a shit about hardship.

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francksteel: Oh, no, you're just saying that white men of 1940-1945 where so much racists and/or anti-communists that they even killed and/or raped white people (but not as "white" as they were, not as capitalist as they were).
So you've just proven my point again.
Sorry - but this sentence (but not as "white" as they were, not as capitalist as they were) is stupid. You obviously misplaced one of "not" words.

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francksteel: And no, I don't think a worldwide "communism" as seen in Russia or China would be better, I just think there are lots of other economics systems that would do better than any of those two)
Just for your information - there was NO communism in Russia. There was SOCIALISM.
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devoras: anybody in that situation is having a bad time of it regardless of race or gender.
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francksteel: It's always hard to judge how harder (and to put a one-dimensional figure for it) it is for one or another when in such situation, but If you can read french:

http://www.ch-le-vinatier.fr/orspere-samdarra/rhizome/anciens-numeros/rhizome-n11-la-souffrance-est-elle-sexuee/etre-une-femme-sdf-est-ce-different-1639.html

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/droits-des-femmes/j-ai-ete-violee-70-fois-en-17-ans-de-rue-le-grand-tabou-des-agressions-sexuelles-sur-les-femmes-sdf_2345935.html
I mean, I just said I don't care who has it worse off than someone else in any particular situation, when that situation is going to be bad for anyone. A homeless black man or a white man, both are in the same terrible situation. Conversely, a situation where someone is a millionaire is good, whether you're a black man or a white man. Race is irrelevant to how bad or good the situation is. It's a strange hobby these days, so many people seem obsessed with which arbitrary group is worse off than some other arbitrary group, when what matters are the individuals and their character.
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devoras: It's a strange hobby these days, so many people seem obsessed with which arbitrary group is worse off than some other arbitrary group, when what matters are the individuals and their character.
There is nothing strange at all. Racism, sexism and many other different kind of prejudice were always flourishing among ignorant and stupid people. After all it's the most easy way to put a blame on one single group of people (regardes if they are black or white, or have whatever distinct characteristics) for everything wrong in the world.

Honestly, most annoying thing with people like francksteel is that they don't even try to dig the information. To look into different sources, check all sides of each story. And it's today, with every possible (well, almost every possible) document in the Internet being at their fingertips.
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devoras: I mean, I just said I don't care who has it worse off than someone else in any particular situation, when that situation is going to be bad for anyone. A homeless black man or a white man, both are in the same terrible situation. Conversely, a situation where someone is a millionaire is good, whether you're a black man or a white man. Race is irrelevant to how bad or good the situation is. It's a strange hobby these days, so many people seem obsessed with which arbitrary group is worse off than some other arbitrary group, when what matters are the individuals and their character.
It's true economic class is kind of equal but I don't think you're even contemplating how your race or gender also influences how people treat you. People ridicule others all the time for their skin color, we've been through wars about this.

People struggle all the time whether it be from personal, economic, or racial struggles. It's about trying to decrease as much as we can.

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LootHunter: Honestly, most annoying thing with people like francksteel is that they don't even try to dig the information. To look into different sources, check all sides of each story. And it's today, with every possible (well, almost every possible) document in the Internet being at their fingertips.
Please take your own advice, you are completely ignoring the struggles of different people and almost being apathetic to people who actually want to talk about it. It's not "SJW propaganda" to look into these topics, it's an integral part of society. You need to stop acting ignorant and realize that instead of ignoring it like it doesn't exist.
Post edited January 18, 2020 by jacobsclub72
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LootHunter: Honestly, most annoying thing with people like francksteel is that they don't even try to dig the information. To look into different sources, check all sides of each story. And it's today, with every possible (well, almost every possible) document in the Internet being at their fingertips.
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jacobsclub72: Please take your own advice
Actually, I did. I've pulled quite a few sources to learn about black people history, history of women in power and also history of attitude towards sex and sexuality. And I didn't restrict myself to just one side. Can you say the same thing about yourself?
Post edited January 18, 2020 by LootHunter
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devoras: I mean, I just said I don't care who has it worse off than someone else in any particular situation, when that situation is going to be bad for anyone. A homeless black man or a white man, both are in the same terrible situation. Conversely, a situation where someone is a millionaire is good, whether you're a black man or a white man. Race is irrelevant to how bad or good the situation is. It's a strange hobby these days, so many people seem obsessed with which arbitrary group is worse off than some other arbitrary group, when what matters are the individuals and their character.
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jacobsclub72: It's true economic class is kind of equal but I don't think you're even contemplating how your race or gender also influences how people treat you. People ridicule others all the time for their skin color, we've been through wars about this.

People struggle all the time whether it be from personal, economic, or racial struggles. It's about trying to decrease as much as we can.
You're right, I don't bother contemplating it. I don't expect or need anything from anyone else. I don't find it useful to get into victim olympics to find out who is most hard done by, it encourages people to play victim instead of using what they've got and learning to be better.
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jacobsclub72: Please take your own advice
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LootHunter: Actually, I did. I've pulled quite a few sources to learn about black people history, history of women in power and also history of attitude towards sex and sexuality. And I didn't restrict myself to just one side. Can you say the same thing about yourself?
What do you mean by "other side"? There is only one side when it comes to historical truth. If you know about class struggles then you know it's an issue worth talking about in the game.

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devoras: You're right, I don't bother contemplating it. I don't expect or need anything from anyone else. I don't find it useful to get into victim olympics to find out who is most hard done by, it encourages people to play victim instead of using what they've got and learning to be better.
It's about holding people of power accountable you can't better yourself when outside forces take you down. Not everyone's struggles are just personal. You must fight for you and others freedom.
Post edited January 18, 2020 by jacobsclub72
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LootHunter: Actually, I did. I've pulled quite a few sources to learn about black people history, history of women in power and also history of attitude towards sex and sexuality. And I didn't restrict myself to just one side. Can you say the same thing about yourself?
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jacobsclub72: What do you mean by "other side"? There is only one side when it comes to historical truth.
Oh, really? Then, as someone from US, tell me did Bernie Sanders said that woman can't win presidential elections? Or was Elizabeth Warren lying? What is "historical truth" of this event?
Post edited January 18, 2020 by LootHunter
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LootHunter: Actually, I did. I've pulled quite a few sources to learn about black people history, history of women in power and also history of attitude towards sex and sexuality. And I didn't restrict myself to just one side. Can you say the same thing about yourself?
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jacobsclub72: What do you mean by "other side"? There is only one side when it comes to historical truth. If you know about class struggles then you know it's an issue worth talking about in the game.

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devoras: You're right, I don't bother contemplating it. I don't expect or need anything from anyone else. I don't find it useful to get into victim olympics to find out who is most hard done by, it encourages people to play victim instead of using what they've got and learning to be better.
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jacobsclub72: It's about holding people of power accountable you can't better yourself when outside forces take you down. Not everyone's struggles are just personal. You must fight for you and others freedom.
We already have freedom.

Unless there's actual oppression going on, like say the government is locking up an ethnic group, there's no outside force trying to take you down, that's being overly dramatic. If all you're talking about is that, as a made up example, people in a society think that asian people are too arrogant. Those people are free to think what they like, and the asian people they're referencing are free to be or not be arrogant, or think whatever they like about anyone else as well; as long as they're not infringing on someone else's rights. That's what freedom looks like. If you try to stop people from thinking what they want, you're trying to implement the opposite of freedom.

It's already illegal to discriminate in jobs, unless there's actual discrimination happening you're just making problems up. It's silly, like that 'air conditioning is sexist' article I saw awhile back. You're tilting at windmills and pretending to be fighting some noble fight while doing it.
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jacobsclub72: What do you mean by "other side"? There is only one side when it comes to historical truth.
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LootHunter: Oh, really? Then, as someone from US, tell me did Bernie Sanders said that woman can't win presidential elections? Or was Elizabeth Warren lying? What is "historical truth" of this event?
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jacobsclub72: What do you mean by "other side"? There is only one side when it comes to historical truth.
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LootHunter: Oh, really? Then, as someone from US, tell me did Bernie Sanders said that woman can't win presidential elections? Or was Elizabeth Warren lying? What is "historical truth" of this event?
What are you talking about? What does a political debate have anything to do with history? If there is evidence that it happens then it's true. I still dont understand what you mean by "the other side"