1. Post 131 should be sufficient for Catv. Dk's actions seemed bad in general, but much of his logic held up.

2. I ISOed a couple people after reading Dk's townie list. While I was ISOing Catv it clicked.

They said they lie as town in post #130. They also inferred it was a reaction test post #138.

That depends. If a neutral read person is heavily connected so that their lynch is valuable, I would prefer that. But in any case, someone who is absent should be removed from the game. Preferably by replacement. If necessary by modkill or by being the lynch target. True, we don't gain information by lynching an absentee, but we also do not lose anything valuable and we remove a distraction. However, talking about it a modkill would probably be better than a lynch if no replacement can be found.


And this is where you are wrong. These two things are completely different. The one was a statement about a flavour action of my role. A statement, by the way, that has no bearing on the game and which cannot be false. Because it was simply a statement of an action I chose to take and was able to take.

The other was a role claim and a claim of an investigation result. Both DO have an effect on the game and were meant to have an effect of the game. At least in the 'it was a test' defense. Or the claim was not meant to have an effect and was a harmless joke. In the 'it was a joke' defense. ... Interestingly, Koba tried both defenses. Either way, that claim was an intentionally false statement. You are free to interpret it as joke or as test - but that doesn't change the fact that it was a lie. An intentionally false statement being a lie is a fact. Assuming that the lie was meant as a meaningless joke or a serious test is interpretation and therefore a matter of opinion. I know, nowadays many people have difficulty distinguishing between fact and opinion. But if you allow for yourself the possibility that you might be wrong, you might realize that you, in fact, are.

And yes, I remember having such an argument with you before. But that also doesn't change the fact that a flavour action is something fundamentally different from a false-claim.


About Razza: yes, I see Razza leaning Town and yes, as a result of the joke/test. So yes, if it was a test it had some merit, but at a far too high price. The price being the reveal out of a Town PR without that PR ever having had a chance of doing something useful. So, again, such a joke/test is more useful to scum than to town.

I'm a PR shoot me.

well this is what I was trying to illustrate with your rp example: There must be more nuance to it than "anything not true is lie" or your decorative fiction would be a lie as well.

I put it to the assembly that unless there is an attempt to deceive then we should not classify the statement as a lie.



what's this about then?

You will know when I get stuck on the wrong side because I really don't want team mafia to win regardless of what side I get put on. I ultimately role revealed myself when I was the last mafia standing in that game and let the town win.


However saying that, you're own posts are coming of as strange:

1) Others have pointed out that you share the "lynch all liars" philosophy that I also have.

2) You point out that if Razza's forced softclaim is true, then DkKoba made a move against the town.

3) You also point out that DkKoba doesn't think it's a problem that he forced a town power role to reveal themselves.

Yet, here you are voting for Joe and not DkKoba. The best case scenario is that Razza is a town vanilla, softclaiming a power role, so that the mafia select him and not an actual power role.

The impression I have of Joe is that he knows DkKoba from elsewhere. It's a situation like me and cat roles. You're inclined to believe this person is town-aligned for reasons that are completely irrational and not based on any amount of logic. I'm just a super cat enthusist. Joe might be feeling that DkKoba has to be town because the alternative is that he set someone really bad loose among us, and he just doesn't want the latter to be true.


Oh, since I did mod (not on GOG), I should have commented on this. How the Day Cop is handled probably is going to depend on who is running the game and/or what site it is on. In the games I co-moderated, the Day Cop's ability to check people out was still a private action. Instead of posting something in the thread that all could see, they would send a private message to whichever moderator was online. We would send a message to our co-moderator, wait ten minutes then respond to the Day Cop with the check results. The ten minute wait was just to make sure that Day Cop wasn't cheating by sending a different check to each moderator.


I'm becoming increasingly convinced that Frost is just extremely butthurt that I was all over him as mafia in the prior game and just trying to return the favor. Someone needs to hand him a spare pillow to sit on. I think Frost is town for now.

What do you want to achieve or demonstrate with this? If it's true, it is very stupid to make such a claim without need. If it's not true ... well, then it's a lie.

And that is still wrong. You actually seem not to understand the difference. My decorative fiction CAN'T be a lie, because it wasn't a false statement. I said that Battle Cat eyes Cringer suspiciously. In the flavour situation that we were in. I didn't say that he ever did so before, anywhere in the series. That's just what you tried to make it mean in your desperate attempt not to be wrong. I stated an action of my character. Which has just the same truth content as if you would say 'Mme Razz starts to sing'. ... It is an action, which would be entirely your call.

Why is it so difficult for you to admit that you are wrong?
Koba even openly admitted that they lie, even as Town. Why does it hurt you so much that I call a lie a lie?

The reason is, that I give DkKoba the benefit of the doubt. They come from a different Mafia culture, so it is possible that lying is something that Townies do where they come from. Or in other words, it's a kind of 'newbie protection', which is customary around here. I'm trying to be more lenient to account for culture clash. That said, I will switch to DkKoba if the Joe wagon doesn't gather support. I see both as scummy. By feeling, Koba even a bit more. But, as I said, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. However, Joe is a very experienced player in this Mafia-culture. So culture clash is no excuse for him. So Joe it is for now. Especially since I think they might be scum together.

Maybe that is an explanation too. In any case, whatever the motive, Joe seems to be determined to see Koba in a good light. Even if that requires twisting facts and the meaning of words.

Current thoughts on everyone, which I'm posting because I'm taking a break to work on my massive backlog.


8. DkKoba1 as Man-At-Arms - MAFIA!
He lied - bad.
He forced a day 1 softclaim of another user - bad.
He also comes off as flippant as if it's everyone else's fault.

2. Lifthrasil as BattleCat - MAFIA!
I'm not sure what to think. I want to say all cats are town, but Post #187 is giving my some doubts about him. Why, Battle Cat. Why? Are you really that okay with someone forcing a softclaim that essentially helps team mafia.

More importantly, he has forced me into what will now be the second day 1 role claim of a town role. This will be a separate post.... Also give me about thirty minutes as I need to go make some coffee first.


Everyone Else - I either outright know is town, truly believe is town, or have no reason to doubt for now.

It's a joke, actually. A Very impulsive joke, and I'm starting to worry I'll be the D1 lynch because of it.

let me explain something to you:

They* lied - bad.
Lying is not scummy. You dislike lying. You think it = scum, but any decent enough player who has enough experience knows that lying(especially in the very blatant manner I did) does not equal scum. I mentioned Mafiascum as meta to look at. If anyone even bothered to check, they'd see I lied and CC'd a person claiming cop because I believed they were not the cop. (I was actually correct myself but they were mason and I died for it lol)

They* forced a day 1 softclaim of another user - bad.
This is just arbitrary punishment. You are saying that I deserve to die with this, not that I am scummy. Is it scummy when people push someone and they get enough votes that they claim? Is everyone on that wagon scummy suddenly? No. That's absolutely ridiculous. No one plays that way.

They* also comes off as flippant as if it's everyone else's fault.
This is actually towny behavior but ok.. lmao.

In short, You want to Punish me for what I did. You do not find me scummy .You are trying to Policy me for doing what I did regardless of my alignment. That''s shit play and obviously I am being Flippant about it.

I also share your read to some degree on Lift, and you don't ever acknowledge that. I think you are playing in a very 1 dimensional way and it will be difficult to work with you. Perhaps I am being snowed by yet another player acting like a stubborn ass to blatantly powerscum a miselimination on me but I currently would like to believe I am correct on you.

If you continue to post about me, I will continue to explain why your logic is nonsense. Know that.

I used to work in escalations and your posts really do read like the customer who caused their own problem then gets mad and blames everyone else. That is the problem I'm having with you.

I'd have a lot easier time accepting your test claim if you had just apologized to Razza, but nope.

Instead your double down time and again that the shit that was created by you is 100% the fault of Joe, Lift, Frost, Catte, Ambiti0nZ (nevermind that he hasn't posted), Me, Razza, Vitek, Microfish, Pooka, Scene and Dedo. (Yes, I really did name off everyone, including the game mod.)

Also, you really do come off as condescending with an attitude of "Nobody is allowed to challenge, question, suspect or vote to lynch me because I'm the King of Awesome and said so."

PSA: Ambiti0nZ has been AWOL since the start of the game (slightly more than 3 days now). If he appears before the Day ends he will be penalized. If he doesn't he will be mod-killed. If the latter happens all Night action will be skipped. It will be left to the players to decide whether they want to make a lynch happen before deadline.




VOTE COUNT (up to #204)

DkKoba 3 - Catventurer (#137), detective_razza (#140), FrostburnPhoenix (#166)
JoeSapphire 3 - Catte (#33), DkKoba1 (#124), Lifthrasil (#187)
Ambiti0nZ (MARKED BY YOG) 1 - supplementscene (#70)
detective_razza 1 - Vitek (#41)

Closest to lynch - DkKoba and JoeSapphire at L-4. It takes 7 to lynch.

Not voting - Ambiti0nZ, PookaMustard, JoeSapphirem, Microfish_1

Day 1 will end in approximately 3 days.

"If you apoligized to razza"

see, this is PROVING my point you are just trying to punish me for action and not actually read me scum. You don't suddenly become a supernice person just because you roll town, that isn't a thing. (the opposite actually happens when im scum lol)

I never said no one can question me.

And please dont refer to me as a "King". I never said I was male, I dont know why people assume so. I added my profile pic to hammer the point home.(maybe I should tunnel you for disrespecting me this way? Obviously it means you are mafia, right?)

Regardless - I still think you are town. I want you to look elsewhere. You are seeing red on me because you don't like what I did, and are incapable of critical thought around it. Your thought process is diseased on me because of this. I feel that you also instant FOSed Lift for defending me - while I think they are scum it is a grossly incorrect reason.

why would you claim this unprompted...

It should be obvious who my relationship is with, especially considering who I'm changing my vote to.


unvote DkKobaPL

vote Lifthrasil