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General discussionGOG Mafia #72: Starship of the Gods Part II - The Infernal Engine(945 posts)(945 posts)
(945 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 19, 2021
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GymHenson: Btw, I replied to ya in post 146 to tell ya to not reveal it, but it seems ya missed that post?
No.

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GymHenson: I'm a bit tired atm(due in part to IRL)....remind me what NRA means again if you could?
National Rifle Association (#61).
Posted April 19, 2021
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Lifthrasil: You word isn't law in this game, you know?
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ZFR: Eh?

I'm not complaining that you're not following my word, but that you're not following your own word that GH's justifications are off.

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Lifthrasil: But Catte's not noticing that Joe isn't even playing is more off that that one point you had against GH.
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ZFR: Why?

Can you elaborate your case against catte? Why is thinking Joe is playing pointing towards catte being scum?
Sure. It shows that he didn't read the OP. As Town, we are forced to pay attention. Everyone knows that. Because we have to work out who is scum from small tells. As scum, one can afford to be more complacent. One doesn't have to work anything out because one already knows who is scum and who is Town (in a two faction game like this). Therefore my theory is, that sloppy skimming of the OP happens more easily to scum than to town.

First I thought Catte's vote was a joke. But then he doubled down and made Joe's absence his reason for leaving the vote where it is. That looks to me as if he didn't care whom he voted and then used the percieved absence of Joe as a convenient excuse to turn the RVS-vote a bit more serious.

Of course all of this can be inattentive Town. But still, I think that such an error happens more easily to Scum who doesn't care whom he votes, as long as it isn't his buddy.


About your Town tell on GH, I would have to check older games whether that is true. But I don't currently have the time to do so.
Posted April 19, 2021
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ZFR: Yes. Because if you're Town then scum don't know it and have to rely on tells to figure out your faction.
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GymHenson: What if they were "blind scum"? That a thing? o.0
You're killing me, Smalls!

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Lifthrasil: First I thought Catte's vote was a joke. But then he doubled down and made Joe's absence his reason for leaving the vote where it is. That looks to me as if he didn't care whom he voted and then used the percieved absence of Joe as a convenient excuse to turn the RVS-vote a bit more serious.
Your interpretation of this event makes my head hurt, because (to my mind) it seems like a nonsensical chain of logic on your part. Counter-intuitively, this leads me to think you might be town because scum!you wouldn't be reaching like this.
Posted April 20, 2021
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Microfish_1: Hmm... I try to not vote randomly, but you folk usually accuse me of voting irresponsibly and nonsensically. >:( (xD)
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GymHenson: You mean they usually accuse me of that(and other things), right? ;D

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Microfish_1: 4. I don't think you are a team together, or you wouldn't be this blatant...or would you? I do recall a certain "Hang-gliding over the amazon hunting penguins" trilogy of posts from 3 authors who made up the scum team.
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GymHenson: Speaking of: What do you think of ZFR's seeming honing in on me and Bookwyrm's Post 84(the first bit in that post, I mean)? Anything seem scummy or otherwise amiss?

(always helps to get another pov on these things)
The baith o' ussssss! :D

Er, yeah, I'm not sure who is to "blame" here; unsure if it is S v T or T v S or (less likely) T v T. Would scum!zfr be so persistent on D1? I'm keeping my eye on things and pondering...

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Pookina: You know, I usually don't take action on Day 1 (or take it late anyway) because it's the most pointless day of all and it has the highest likelihood of a mislynch, but this persistent questioning and bringing up of ZFR "tunneling" seems to me that, besides it ironically* being tunneling on ZFR himself, also feels like a shallow attempt to subconsciously shade him in our minds. It's a gut feeling so far, but I'm so close to just bolding out the words "Vote GH" and putting them on a fresh new line because of them. The Bookwyrm mentions are even better since the only time he ever mentions GH in post 84 is the last bit when he responds to ZFR by saying something along the words of "interesting, I'll look into it." That's it. Nothing I don't see much to fuss about. (Of course it's probable I missed GH bringing up something else about it, but so far it's unclear if that's the case).

*note to self: stop saying "irony" every single time pook
huh. interesting. Also, is it irony if you look at what you were just ironing? :P

Post 125 said my thoughts better than i could have. Except, not all reactions are meaningless. If a joke post stirred something meaningful, it is wrong to focus on it? Of course not.

Someone here is grasping at straws? but I cannot yet say whom.

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Bookwyrm627: any ideas...? As long as he's actually scum hunting, then sure. If he's faking it, then no. Mafia don't typically actually hunt for scum for obvious reasons.
nope, not Ideas Mr. Moder... you aren't mod anymore? :O
Back to the game, nope, no ideas yet. But I'm sure you can figure it out.

This doesn't really hold water with me, for the following reasons. I don't know that I would be agreeing with anything someone I thought a scum player said, nor would I want to follow their logic.... Without also being on the scum team, I wouldn't know if they were hunting scum or just pretending. Some pretenders pretend extremely well (HSL comes to mind in my very first game).
How would you as town know if they were scum hunting or faking it? A few games ago, we had a 3rd party survivor who survived because he was scumhunting--or so we all thought--except in 3rd party chat he said he was trying to look like he was scum-hunting without actually scum-hunting, because he thought he had a better chance to win with scum winning.

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Bookwyrm627: Pay attention to what someone is saying, whether it seems consistent, and gut feeling on whether they're genuine or bluffing.
Hmmmm... I know I sometimes lack consistency as town (you can see this in my previous town games) because I derail my train of thought from Day to Day or even on the same day....sometimes even in the same argument. >:(
How accurate is your gut, historically?

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Lifthrasil: never read OP
not at all defending him, because you are right about he should have read or recalled the OP more carefully, but Joe did say
here
Because dedo and I have been watching the stars and have foreseen great disaster we have decided the safest way to proceed is for me and he to swap hosting turns.

That means he's taking over as moderator, and I'm joining as a player.
This stuck in my mind and has prompted several questions from various people, so i sort of understand where his question was coming from, but I also get your POV.

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ZFR: town tell from GH
:O pray tell what it is? You seemed to flip-flop in a hurry there?


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GymHenson: hospitalized
very sorry to hear that; hope they get better soon!

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Lifthrasil: Yes, I tend to tunnel on players who attack me too. I am aware of that. And you tunneling on ZFR wasn't my reason to suspect you. If you read again, you will see that. What looks off is the way you try to explain your early suspicion of Bookwyrm away. It sounded serious, but then it was supposed to be a joke, then it was supposed to be a test, then a joke-test. Each time ZFR pointed out a flaw in your defense, you refined your reply. That looks as if you weren't stating your true reason for that 'suspicion', but as if you were making something up to justify it.
So it's not the fact that you defend against ZFR nor the fact that you suspect him back that makes you look off. It is the way you did your defense. This altering your reply bit by bit. That wouldn't be necessary for Town.

...not that Town never does unnecessary things. So you might be Town who, for some reason, got all flustered when attacked. But ZFR might as well be right and you're Scum who stumbled over their own defense.
hmmmm. Not sure of this.

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FlockeSchnee: Disclaimer: I'm not going to read all the other old games to find out who plays like what and some such. I'll leave that to you. I hope you don't mind.
I have yet to read a game that I didn't play in unless I signed up for the observer thread. Being you is all we ask :D

Also, I appreciate your listing yourself in the list of suspects. Often scum don't list themselves in order to keep focus away from them...but then sometimes they will, because "no scum would list themself" So, WIFOM (I hope I used this correctly, O Forum Mafia Experts Reading This Thread!)
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FlockeSchnee: Would scum really distance like this this early in the game?
Trentonlf would. No doubt. His exact words one time were as best as I recall:
if I was scum and thought that it [distancing from a scum partner] would help the scum team win, I'd not only distance, I'd bus so hard I'd run over them, back up, and run over them again."
Would GH & Bookwyrm or GH & ZFR? I don't honestly know.

The fact that ZFR bailed on GH's thread when it reached 3 votes is also of note. Not as bad as if he had bailed at 5 votes, but still.

NRA= Newly Reduced Appliances, Ned's Restaurant Arbitrators, Nerville Randolph Ambergast, Neer's Reasonable Anglish?

+++++++++++++++
Haynes, Haynes! Where are you! get over here! The engine is jumping all over the place! I don't want it to jump through the hull, or otherwise we'd all be spaced! ...You're what? ... Guarding the doorway? ...The doorway to vacuum? ... Against intruders? Get over here now or the engine is gonna shake loose of it's moorings and I don't know what the lever that says "vibrate engine" does!
Dick Haynes--not the TV and silver screen personality of the long-past 20th Century but a young engineer with 2 pocket protectors--"in case the first had a hole"--put down his stun pen with a sigh, mopped his wide brow, and sneezed violently. He lumbered to his feet and bounced down the artificially gravitated hallway over to the dials and displays that made up Control Panel Zeta 5. Picking up a Sonic Drill bit, he touched it to his teeth and got loose a glob of gelatinized goo. This glob went into a tiny slot on the dashboard marked "hole for glob". A whirring noise came as a cover plate rolled back to reveal a baby grand piano built into the control panel. Haynes grunted and turned to the other engineer.
You see Tom, he said, it's just a matter of playing the right notes to vibrate the gerbils to bounce hard enough to stabilize the thrust invectors on the Dominoe Jouncers and counterbalance the circumlocutions and burping of the Ester-Mark Mach 72 (A) Aerosquishy Piston-engined Rocket-launching Soap Dish Drive."

"Well, I never!" said Tomas Tomas Tomas Tomas the XXVII (called Tom for short). "I tried sticking a new triangle of yellow soap onto the engine inlet but it didn't take. Thanks! Piano, huh? Lets try it."

(To be horribly continued???)
Posted April 20, 2021
I just realized I hadn't voted, even though I should have.

Vote Gym

because he looks the most suspect to me at the moment.



@Blotunga: Why did state in your post 78 that you thought it was weird for nmillar to vote me (we were still in RVS too)?
Posted April 20, 2021
Replied to ZFR and Bookwyrm
(make sure to read yer replies, guiz)
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ZFR: National Rifle Association (#61).
That's what I figured....although I thought it was some other term as I forgot we had a game with NRA theme(yeah, my memory is THAT BAD).

+++

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Bookwyrm627: You're killing me, Smalls!
Voting, actually...and if yer scum then also lynching if possible. ;)
(also nice quote-age there, pardner)

That aside, a bit of musing and a question: if there were two scum factions in a game(i mean in general) and they didn't know each others members, then they would be somewhat blind in a way, wouldn't they?
Posted April 20, 2021
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Microfish_1: Er, yeah, I'm not sure who is to "blame" here; unsure if it is S v T or T v S or (less likely) T v T. Would scum!zfr be so persistent on D1? I'm keeping my eye on things and pondering...
Let me know if you come up with or figure out anything, k? :)

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Microfish_1: Hmmmm... I know I sometimes lack consistency as town (you can see this in my previous town games) because I derail my train of thought from Day to Day or even on the same day....sometimes even in the same argument. >:(
You too? Because of my memory and other things, my mind sometimes also gets "derailed" as well...and not just in these games. :|

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Microfish_1: :O pray tell what it is? You seemed to flip-flop in a hurry there?
He listed it in the middle part of post 148.

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Microfish_1: very sorry to hear that; hope they get better soon!
Thanks for the well wishes :)

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Microfish_1: Would GH & Bookwyrm or GH & ZFR? I don't honestly know.
I have a tactic I usually employ if scum with a better/more experienced mafia player.....can y'all guess what it is(if so, just say yes/something similar)?
(don't wanna say it outright myself, in case i'm ever scum again and want to employ it then)

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Microfish_1: NRA= Newly Reduced Appliances, Ned's Restaurant Arbitrators, Nerville Randolph Ambergast, Neer's Reasonable Anglish?
Check the second part of post 151. ;)

+++

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Microfish_1: (To be horribly continued???)
GH plays a soothing tune on his violin as his pipe spouts out some soapy bubbles, thinking on what he has read so far. He knows he will possibly forget a chunk of it, and maybe also not follow up on it later, but thinking is usually always good so he keeps at it.

He hears some other passenger or other saying weird random things in the distance, somewhere beyond his own cabin, and wonders what it could be all about.
Posted April 20, 2021
Okay, so time to get rid of the RVS vote.

Unvote FlockeSchnee

There seems to be two camps at the moment, with people mostly pointing the finger at either GH or ZFR, though interestingly ZFR doesn't have any votes as per the last vote count, so let's change that.

Vote ZFR
Posted April 20, 2021
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Lifthrasil: never read OP
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Microfish_1: not at all defending him, because you are right about he should have read or recalled the OP more carefully, but Joe did say
here

Because dedo and I have been watching the stars and have foreseen great disaster we have decided the safest way to proceed is for me and he to swap hosting turns.

That means he's taking over as moderator, and I'm joining as a player.
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Microfish_1: This stuck in my mind and has prompted several questions from various people, so i sort of understand where his question was coming from, but I also get your POV.

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ZFR: town tell from GH
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Microfish_1: :O pray tell what it is? You seemed to flip-flop in a hurry there?
Thanks for the link to the source of Catte's error. But for now I'll keep my vote on him until he re-joins us and says something about the matter. Or until he decides that he doesn't want to play in his current mood after all and asks for a replacement. Which I would totally understand.

But about ZFR's flip-flop, he already told us what his Town-tell on GH was: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_72_starship_of_the_gods_part_ii_the_infernal_engine/post148

It's a tell that is contingent on memory (or analysis) of previous games. So not a very strong one and not easy to check. But for now I guess that he's genuine and thinks that he has found something that invalidates his previous suspicion. ZFR, on the whole, gives off a towny vibe to me. But he has fooled me before.
Posted April 20, 2021
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FlockeSchnee:
I just finished reading, I thought you were a newcommer to mafia, probably I've been out of the loop for too long.

As for the rest, I revoke my feeling, GH feels his usual self. Not much to go on. ZFR seems to be very proactive, but that's NAI imho. While I do agree with Lift that catte should be paying more attention, I think IRL issues in this case might excuse him.

Btw there is so much fluff around that I feel it hard to follow. That's why I usually try to keep my post somewhat short and meaningful. I think people by now got used to my semi-lurkiness until I have nothing important to say.
Posted April 20, 2021
Hey guys, I'm back-ish. Not caught up on the last couple of days' posts but will as time permits (at work right now).
Posted April 20, 2021
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Lifthrasil: Sure. It shows that he didn't read the OP. As Town, we are forced to pay attention. Everyone knows that. Because we have to work out who is scum from small tells. As scum, one can afford to be more complacent. One doesn't have to work anything out because one already knows who is scum and who is Town (in a two faction game like this). Therefore my theory is, that sloppy skimming of the OP happens more easily to scum than to town.
Sorry but I have to call out this one.

Complacency or inattentiveness in the games I played is a trait I've seen in both camps, but in my personal experience I see the opposite: town are more careless and inattentive than scum a lot of the time. Remember that time I derpcleared myself by saying we were hunting for three scumbuddies when it was explicitly stated to be two? Not that this couldn't be abused by scum, mind you, but I don't see enough precedence to make it anything more than NAI.

Plus scum has to work out acting that they're working out, so I don't think it really counts. Anyway, despite the stuff I mentioned, this smells and reeks of...Town Lift. It's just so like him to pick a point like this and go on with it as a Townie. But again this is based on Lift's character meta so take that with a grain of salt if you will.
Posted April 20, 2021
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blotunga: I just finished reading, I thought you were a newcommer to mafia, probably I've been out of the loop for too long.
The unwritten "rule" is about not lynching or NKing newcomers on D1N1, so they stay in their first game a bit longer.. RVS-voting new comers on the other hand is a time honoured tradition, hence nmillar's vote.
Posted April 20, 2021
Brings back memories

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_52_shodans_children/post9
Attachments:
adalia.png (38 Kb)
Posted April 20, 2021
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ZFR: The unwritten "rule" is about not lynching or NKing newcomers on D1N1, so they stay in their first game a bit longer.. RVS-voting new comers on the other hand is a time honoured tradition, hence nmillar's vote.
Now I know a bit more :)
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #72: Starship of the Gods Part II - The Infernal Engine(945 posts)(945 posts)
(945 posts)