Good to hear :)

It more or less cleared something up for me, and you seem to list it further in your post:

Bingo

It(in part) allowed me to "test" Pookina.....I mean if they're town they wouldn't know anyone else's alignment and they wouldn't know if I was town or not, so why leave their vote on me for many hours after I self voted? ;)

Well the sooner we get enough votes for NL, the sooner we can go into N4(and then d5) so: why not help get this thing(NL) over with asap?

Well unless you think we should all discuss some more first or etc?

VOTE COUNT

GymHenson 2 - Pookina (#707), trentonlf (#728)
No-Lynch 1 - GymHenson (#732)

Not voting: Microfish_1, Catte, Joppo

With 6 players it takes 4 votes to achieve a lynch.

GymHenson is closest to lynch at L-2.

Day 4 ends in just under 4 days.

sorry, i had to go afk. allergies are putrid this time of year.

Anyway, going into today I would not have voted for pooka or myself, but now i would vote for anyone if they did anything scummy enough. the thing is, i read (past tense) pooka as town, joppo as 50/50 because of nmillar and some questionable other things, trent as leaning town maybe? catte as leaning town maybe? gh as leaning scum. but no one enough to vote. the only difference is now i see pooka as scummier (toss up now, marginally lean town?) and GH--lost town points (a lot) by voting for himself, but also is voting NL which is good. If someone would please holler "i give up, i'm scum!" i'd be happy to vote but for now am switching from moving slowly to "moving with glacial slowness" because of MYLO.

Oh, while you're here do you have any thoughts about Pooka and Trent being against NL and also voting for GH in a somewhat hasty manner? Obviously NL improves our odds slightly, but I don't know if scum would be so worried that they'd instead try and push for a mislynch now.

You mean I still had some left? ;D

As for NL: I actually went with that originally near the start of d4.....I only went with the self vote as a risky play to keep scum from getting an easy mislynch, and also kept it there a bit to try and ferret out the other scum mate. Now it's back to NL for me.

Well looks like we'll be stuck on slow for awhile anyways.....if the scum don't vote for NL we'd need everyone else to vote NL to push it through, so I don't think an early end to d4 via a NL vote is very likely atm.

I'm guessing they figured me for an easy mark: people suspect me often in these games, so i'm guessing they possibly thought they could start a wagon against me and wait for others to join onto it....having the other scum mate join on when needed.

I figured that would likely either be as the hammer, or(if enough time had passed and my wagon wasn't going anywhere, etc) that the other scum mate would jump onto my wagon early......so I self voted in part in the hopes that it would "entice" the second scum to show up.

Now either I got lucky or Trent is actually exasperated town.....who can fully say......either way, I did my best to try and stop the mislynch and try to lure out the other scum, and i'm near certain Pookina is scum now so I know whom i'll be voting for should I make it to d5(scum might want to NK me if i'm on target re: who the scum team is, but then that might draw more eyes to them....will be interesting to see how it plays out should I not get lynched for d4). All in all, I consider it a net positive return.

Right, I'm off to bed.

I guess I'll

Vote nolynch

And see what I wake up to.

Like you I maintain that NL is a better strategy for us now than going for a lynch that we can't be sure of, but I don't think we should vote NL right away.

Even if the scum will have stuff to talk during the Night, it's better if we get the most out of the Day by getting everyone talking. The more the mafiosos talk, the better the chance they're going to slip and get caught in a lie.

I said it already. More conversation is beneficial for Town. We shouldn't waste a whole Day of opportunities to poke, prod and confront.

(Now excuse me while I go be AFK for a few hours, but I have to file my taxes. Time is running out.)

What if they talk little or talk mostly fluff(misc stuff)...etc etc?

I say if we're going to NL anyways(voting it or through no one getting enough votes), I say we move to D5 and then do the talking then....we'll certainly have the time to, at any rate.

Well anyways, as I said earlier it likely won't matter if not enough people vote, so we'll likely have to wait for NL anyways...so I guess unless 2 others vote NL, then waiting it is then.

Better hurry, I heard tell from The Joker that those guys are scary. o.0 ;)

Eh, I don't like it; it's part of what turns this into a whole jumbled mess. People who I had classed as town (pooka) are behaving in what I perceive as an anti-town fashion. People who I didn't consider town are behaving on one hand like ultra town and on the other like scum. GH seems 60% scum 40% town. scum would, of course, know the math and thus it wouldn't be surprising if they chose the better maths approach, but then we all know the math, so Trent's "ignore the math and get something done" provokes this response: "eeeeeeee"--not very comforting. It is in scum's best interests to get this done now and not drag it out another day. Therefore, it is in town's best interests to slow down to sludge speed and talk before voting NL.
Not sure about Catte either way. I like that he wants to NL instead of voting, but it is too early perhaps to NL?
Joppo has improved signifivcantly from nmillar, but doubts remain. The dichotomy of "hard lean scum!nmiller = lean town!Joppo" is baffling. Both cannot be correct. 1+2 != 2.

On the other other other hand, GH's self vote is really really bad. I think it seems something scum might well do to remove pressure. It' a gambit and every gambit will work once, sometime.

The thing is, no one but you knows for sure yor alignment, so while this might prove useful to you, it sure is questionable to us.

1) yes. few. I've been flip-flopping on you as town or scum most of the game, keeping in mind that what might be scum for me or Joe is NAI for you.

2) I see.

agreed. would scum joppo say this? yes. However, this nets Joppo slightly more town points.

hands Joppo a file with which to cut his way out of his predicament.

End result, not going to NL this hour, not going to vote for anyone else this hour. Maybe in a few hours but not right now.

The problem being that scum will likely know this already and will find ways to not give much info until EOD....plus waiting gives more time for scum to try to push a mislynch through.

That said, we likely will have to wait till the timer runs out, as (imo) we likely couldn't easily get the needed votes for a NL(as i'm guessing scum might not vote for it....or at least not both of them).

IIRC I did that once as town long ago...self voted as part of a gambit to relieve pressure or etc. I got voted and lynched anyways.

*shrugs*

Well it was either that or allow scum to try to get an easy lynch via me and win the game....I had a tough call to make, and I went with the choice I felt was best.

Take your time, if it'll help you make the right call in the end.

Keep in mind, though, that we'd need to get Joppo on board if we wanted to even get a NL before EOD....as I don't think Pookina or Trent will be joining us(because even if one of them wasn't scum, they are iirc both strongly against NLs in general)....so even if you voted NL we might still have to wait till EOD.

VOTE COUNT

GymHenson 2 - Pookina (#707), trentonlf (#728)
No-Lynch 2 - GymHenson (#732), Catte (#742)

Not voting: Microfish_1, Joppo

With 6 players it takes 4 votes to achieve a lynch.

GymHenson and No-Lynch is closest to lynch at L-2.

Day 4 ends in approximately 3.5 days.

nearly twelve hours ago...

The confidence GH is displaying by saying Trent is my scumbuddy, when even I don't have an idea who could be our other guy, is quite baffling to be honest. I'm not sure what this suggests at all, but his new play style for this Day is quite...a paradigm shift for GH. I like it for how unexpected it is. (Call me a masochist if you want *laugh*)

I guess my gambit, however strange it may be, must have paid off. Unless one of the scums is the absent Microfish, this is probably a good indicator there just aren't enough scum to get the show going. What I'm saying is yes, either GH is scum or our scumteam has Scum X (where X can or can not be GH) + Micro.

But now the situation gets better. Now the people on GH's wagon involve me and Trent. His involvement is a new development, at 44 minutes ago at the time of writing. Even better still: he brought him to L-1. Perfect opportunity for Catte, joppo, or an absent Micro, to show up and throw the game. Somehow didn't happen still. Although let's be honest, the window of time when GH was at L-1 was just 7 minutes.

Wilder theory: GH and Trent are the scumteam. Not a fan of this theory because it once again puts trent in the scum bucket because "circumstances." Not interested in having a second blotunga. These are some of my guesses at the moment.

As for trent violating his own instruction, I honestly don't blame him. If GH hasn't reacted to my vote the way he did this Day, things would have likely gone differently, for better or worse. But the self-vote ticked me off, and I understand if trent feels the same way abut it.

and so this notepad window sits there for like an hour or something

I see Catte and Micro expressing doubts about what I had done. Give it a shot: if I was scum, would I really bring that much attention to myself and put the Town points I gained into jeopardy? The way I see it, if Town wants to win, we need to take a few bold risks to get somewhere. We can't just keep the kiddy gloves on all the time when all we have for a proper wagon is blotunga.

Now see, if I were really scum, I'd just wait a bit longer to see how things play out and do what I usually do. Even better yet: I've been after GH the whole game. If I was Town previously when I was against GH, why would I be suspicious when I decide to give GH his only vote this Day? I hadn't even anticipated that another person could join the GH wagon, let alone himself, to be fair.

sleep happens

Trent's position against NL is NAI, understandable and makes sense if you've been around him for any amount of time. He's an action guy, and if I remember well, he even argued with ZFR about the merits of following the maths in a previous game. Coming into a game with a NL already happened must've been a hard swallow, now imagine that another one happened due to Town Incompetence, and you're asking him to NL a third time in this game alone. No wonder he's against NL.

Even though I voiced my disagreement in the beginning, I would've been fine with a NL on D1, but this is getting too much. I want to play the game, not wait another 48 hours before we can move again.

By this point it's been roughly 24 hours with GH at L-2. Everyone has got online during this period and chimed in with a cent or two. Plus, GH actually removed his self-vote. I'm still not convinced he's Town, but I believe we're in a better situation now than we were the previous Day.

Unvote GymHenson

NL or not, I'm more interested in using this Day to assess the current state of affairs.

...and let's finally post this wall of text.

EBWOP:

"There are many things my father taught me here in this room. He taught me: keep your friends close, but your enemies closer." -Michael Corleone, The Godfather: Part II, 1974

If people believe I'm scum then please dear God vote me so this game will end today, and vote me sooner rather than later. If we NL today and I live through the night my vote will rest on GH again without a chance of moving if he's still alive as well. If NL is how people want to play this I will not be involved in supporting it. It will just be another waste of a day so please just vote it now and move on or put your vote on someone who you think is scum because everyone being wishy washy about the whole thing is not helping Town at all.