True! Very scummy of you to be invisible! ;-)

But I agree that suggesting to reveal the Cop on D1 looks off on ZFRs part. Sure, Follow the Cop is a valid strategy, but not in this setup. Especially with the possibility that scum might have steered the voting towards a Doctor specifically because there is a Strongman in play. If that is the case, ZFRs 'Follow the Cop' suggestion might be a bold play to get the Cop to reveal himself, knowing that he can be dispatched easily. So yes, ZFR joins the 'suspect' crew.

I think I understand what you mean. Going over them, ZFR's posts seem to be planned. They give off the feeling of being carefully worded. For example, he actually never pushed for the Follow the Cop strategy. He just suggested the strategy and said we should talk about it. That could be an attempt to bring the idea into play while at the same time avoiding that he can be accused of promoting a potentially harmful strategy.

Judging from myself I know that I put a lot more care into my wording when I play scum than when I play town. As scum you have to pretend to play towny while actually working against town. That forces some level of planning to avoid self-contradictions. But as Town, I can just write whatever I think because I can be honest.

But the question is, is it the same with ZFR? Is his structured and somehow non-committal writing style a sign of scumminess? Or is it town-ZFR just being careful about what he writes, for some reason?


@ZFR: why did you think it necessary to bring up the Follow the Cop strategy? Wasn't it quite obvious that it is potentially disastrous for Town? You even said so yourself: if there is a Strongman, we're screwed. So why bring it up at all?

@flubb: I'm still not content with your answer. You 'agreed, cop and doctor were better'. Agreed with whom? Your scumbuddy? And why is a cop/doctor couple better than having two complementary investigative roles?

Sorry, but I stand by my post to bring it up. As Bookwyrm said regarding the brig in one game : if there is a game mechanic that could be useful to town it's worth exploring. And I dont believe in the absolute "X is always bad therefore whoever suggests X is scummy."

Does the strategy have the potential of being useful? Yes. Ergo, brought it up. Why bring it up if it could be disastrous? Because there are 8 other players here, many of them more experienced than me, who could see something I don't. That's the discussing it part.

(The above ^ assumes Doc can protect same target twice in a row which I thought was the case when I posted. Agent mentioned a website and I assumed it's the one where wiki is hosted, where Normal Doc has no such restriction. Had I known I wouldn't have brought it up).

@Pooka, repeating something others mentioned already twice gives the impression of artificially putting content in one's posts to make them appear busier than they are. Ditto for fairly obvious counterarguments.

Can't sleep. Also wifi knocked out cold, been meaning to post this earlier, but since I have nothing better to so anyway:

First off, some elementary maths. The last post before my first is number 20, there are three Agent posts and one Joe post in those 20 posts, so a grand total of 16 relevant posts before I properly joined. At that time, there were only two topics to talk about: Lift's "slip" and the role voting. How dare I ask Lift questions about his slip, the honor must go to ZFR and Wyrm, but not Pooka!

So you're basically saying me talking at all about Lift's subject by asking him where he got the three is AGAIN repetition? I have told you before that while neither you nor Wyrm asked him where he got that three from, I did, and I got the answer for it, which neither of you did. And if my "repeating" gave me a different result than it did with you or Wyrm, then that is good enough in my books, something you still conveniently omit in your move against me. You care not of the results, all you see is "look! someone joined this early game topic third! must be scum."

I'm surprised you aren't seeing yourself as scum by that logic. After Wyrm asked "wat?" you said "This stinks, LAMIST!" Which now that I think about it...that post of yours:

What has that "this stinks" post added to the game? What did it do for town? I am betting all it did was add more question marks against you. Your eagerness from D0, and now this whole thing. I am convinced you are truly mafia.

Unvote flubbucket
Vote ZFR

Vote Count

ZFR - 2 votes (trentonlf, PookaMustard)
PookaMustard - 1 vote (ZFR)

Not voting: everyone else

ZFR is closest to lynch at L-3.

With 9 players, 5 is a majority.

The deadline is approximately 5 days from now.

It is entirely possible his post is on the level. I simply reject the argument that he had no chance to provide any indicators of his preferences.

(Bolding mine) Yuck.

That would mean he isn't forming his own opinions, he is just sheeping off other opinions. 'No original ideas' is one way mafia can avoid rocking the boat, and it is the type of townie that mafia may find it easiest to manipulate. Being able to come to an agreement with others is helpful for town, but relying on others to do all your thinking is not helpful for town.

Also, if he had no clue what to vote then he could have said "I have no idea what roles vote for."

Um. So the reasons for Cop and watcher or doctor were already given, but you're suspicious of Flub for voting those roles after reasons had been presented?

This stinks of easy targeting, though I agree that Flub shouldn't just get free passes.

Assuming you are town, then I know I'm not really helping at the moment but I wish you better luck in drawing him out than I've had over the years. :D

Why??

Nice catch


@Pooka, I can’t see a reason why anyone being cut off from voting powers makes them read as town or any alignment for that matter. What is your reasoning?

Except that it doesn't bring anything new. A statement "I find your post strange" has an implicit request for an explanation. I can't see Lift going "Well, Bookwyrm and ZFR found my post mentioning 3 scum strange. Thankfully they didn't ask me to explain myself. Ah damn, here is a post with an explicit question about it; now I have to answer."

Yes, others do it too; repeat points that have already been mentioned, including myself, but I find yours to be particularly artificially inflated. I could be wrong, could be just your style or me subconsciously referring to your last game, where a few long posts of yours felt the same way, but that's just what I feel.

So you're "convinced" I'm "truly" mafia because as mafia I'd be overeager from the get go and make posts that raise question marks about myself? I liked it better when I was the cool mafioso who'd sit calmly on his WIFOM votes.

You always say that.

Yes, you said you like them better. You didn't say why. Just stating 'I agree with what some others said' is either very lazy or scummy (or both) and in any case not helpful. It is a very broad and non-committal statement and doesn't contribute any reasoning of your own.

@ZFR
Actually I'm with Pooka concerning the discussion between you. Your "This smells. I know we aren't supposed to vote for lynch yet..." didn't even point out, what about my post smells. It was not a helpful comment at all and on it's own wouldn't have made me realize that I made an error in counting. It looked just like an arbitrary accusation.

Even Bookwyrm's "wat?" was more helpful. "Wat?" implies confusion and thereby points out that I have written something confusing - i.e. something nonsensical. But you jumped straight to conclusions. Your "this smells" implies intent on my part for writing my post in the way I wrote it. Therefore your "this smells" doesn't even point out that my post contained an error. It just shows that you wanted to read it as scummy.

Without Bookwyrm's "wat' the message I received would have been "Ah, ZFR is trying to look towny by pretending to scum-hunt" and not "Oh, I must have written something wrong."

And then Pooka came along and actually asked for an explanation how I could make such an error. That is far more useful play than jumping straight to conclusions like you did. Sure, it can be an act. Pooka is perfectly capable of playing the interested, helpful Townie when he is not. However, in that exchange he looked way townier that you, since a Townie should try to understand and analyze his fellow players (which he appeared to be doing). While Scum only has to find sufficient reason to pin some blame on someone (which you appeared to be doing).

Go back and read your own posts pretending that they were written by someone else. Then you will see what I mean.

OK, fair enough. I thought my quote of you made it clear what I find off in your post (and yes, unlike Bookwyrm I did purposely imply intent - your intent to deliberately making a "mistake" to appear LAMIST). But I see what you mean regarding my posts.

Yes, on D1 (or in this case D0) I make accusations to observe reactions. They are not "You must be scum!!!!! I solved the game!!!!" accusations; but looking at reactions can be useful. I liked your reactions; I didn't like Pooka's.
I don't want to tunnel (especially since as I said it could be leftover from last game when Pooka was scum), but for the time being I'll leave my vote.

flub cutting him off (and this is despite GR actually saying he'd post later) appears a scummy move. Based on that, I was willing to give GR a slight town read. Slight town read as in it's not enough for me to believe he is town, but it is enough for me to make him look better than the neutrals on my list. If he wants to be town-leaning all the way, that's something he has to work for.


How about another argument: what if he simply didn't read the rules or the setup page on mafiascum.net? In that case, how would he know about what preferences there are?

And besides, now that I look again at his post...he actually said he'd be here in 16 hours so he will read up and post THEN. He made it clear he would read the next day...now that chance has been denied. So even if he had the chance to indicate his preferences here, I simply don't agree with it being the ONLY chance he ever had to do so...

I didn't say he had to piggyback others' reasoning. He could simply read up on what was posted and then add his own thoughts to it. Hence "and if their opinions affect how he sees these roles" which means he forms an idea or two with these opinions as their base.

Yes, I'm suspicious of his choice of the roles. Lift said it best here:

Basing off this reasoning, him not giving any reasons (of his own), on top of that early closure is suspect. In your own words, he admitted he was sheeping off other opinions, and all that entails with it. There's no "easy targeting" here, but there is use in analyzing this sudden shift from the hemming and hawing GOG Mafia loves to the sudden closure. On Day 0 of all days.

For anyone curious as to why I didn't post any reads/vote choices before I left that day(irl day) I have to say I was in a major hurry and saw the voting had started & left that note that i'd be back thinking i'd be able to post and vote then.

I didn't know that a majority vote of 5 or so would "LOCK" a role and that my time to pick was limited, and I was in a hurry so I forgot to indicate my possible choices as well.

Did you ever get around to asking what Flub thought of GR? Would it be a scum move for Flub to prevent a suspected scum GR from influencing the vote?

I don't think there is much/any material for Flub to make a conclusion (and I doubt he did, though I haven't asked either), but I'm seeing some assumptions here that I don't care for. GR didn't have a whole lot of extra options, but when he showed up he could have just as easily hammered for whatever HIS preferred roles were.

No. Absolutely not.

We've known the setup since July 5th. The sign up thread, which indicates and confirms the exact setup we'll be playing in the very first post, went up on July 6th.

No offense meant to GR, but if he has been too busy to read the setup by July 27th, 21 days later, then he has no business playing in this game because he has no time to play.

If he has had the time but has chosen not to read the setup, then that's on his head and I'll tell him the same thing I've harped on about with Scene: RTFM.

I took that to mean he'd catch up on the thread and respond to thread contents. The fact that he was here at all meant he could have typed the additional sentence with his initial preferences, or indicated he had none, or even that he had a preference but wasn't willing to reveal it yet.

The thing you seem to most be objecting to, that GR didn't state his preferences before voting ended, is something I think GR had a chance to do.

If he's basing it on other people's opinions, then by definition we aren't getting his unfiltered opinions.

So, GR gets to base logic off other people's opinions, but Flub doesn't? :D

Anyway. I think we are starting to just circle here, and such circling is getting boring. I'm up for talking about something else.

Where is Micro? Red has been fairly reserved, and GR had a good burst of activity shortly after D1 start, but that has also dropped off since his questions about roleplay.

I didn't know "hammering" roles via a certain vote number was how it worked. I figured Op would wait until everyone had voted and then take the highest two roles.
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I should've read up on the game but I am a lazy git and I just play casually to have fun, not to take it ultra seriously. It is a GAME, right?
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Read my first bit here and also my reply before this one. I already stated I forgot to add my preferences at that time due to IRL pressures/stuff that was on my mind IRL.
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I might do a bit of roleplay while I wait for more posts to analyze(nothing has stood out to me much yet). Until then I dunno what to add.

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Begin roleplay
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"GR stretched and looked around, waiting for his fellow crewmates to figure out what the h*ll was going on on board. Picking up a can oh ez-cheese, he contemplated using it to whizz through space and explore a bit while he waited for things to be resolved & more info to be obtained."

(That bit above about ez-cheeze is from a game sold on gog, if anyone is curious)