lazydog: which has no basis on sex

morolf: Of course not, Eurosceptiscism has been strong in Britain for decades, and some of the leaders of the leave campaign like Johnson went out of their way to emphasize how pro-immigration they are. But I do believe concerns about immigration were a strong factor in this referendum, maybe the decisive one.

catpower1980: I guess so as I was a far-leftist 20 years ago but turned far-right over the years seeing how the left turned out. I found very interesting to make comparisons between Brexit voters, far-right voters in France and the voters for Höfer in your country as they are what I would crudely call "the leftovers of the system"(damn, that makes me one of them ^o^). Actually most "nationalist" voters nowadays are the working class which got abandoned by the "neo-left" which is now more trying to please employees of the big cities because it's easier to cater to them. And naturally we can add the eternal duality between cities and the countryside into the mix.....

About the age of youngsters, it's normal there's a generation clash as for people over 30 like me, we still vividly remember the 80's and 90's, back when EU was not so prevalent so we can still make comparisons. On the contrary, millenials always lived within the EU system so they don't know that an alternative can exist. Then to get more ideological, I would add that the millenial generation has been raised up in comfort and as perpetual consumers. It then raises the question of the lack of resilience of this generation (due to medias and poor education) thus the idea of a technocratic Europe is more appealing as they can be spoonfed and don't have to choose politically-wise.

I actually liked your comment about comparing business decision and political decision as it's considered an heresy from a leftist point of view :o) I don't know about the Austrian mindset but that seems close to the German one which considers people primarly as workforce instead of the Latin point of view which considers people as individuals. Being accustomed to French culture I can't naturally agree with you guys ^o^

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Anyway, that will be my last post in this thread. Not that I don't want to debate but I think that now, the most reasonable thing to do is to just sit back, chill out and see how things will turn out in the upcoming months now that the dices have been rolled.

Peace. Love.

petitmal: Well, kill me if you like, but I am sad. I respect the decision; I sincerely hope it is going to work out the way they (the Brexiteers) hope, however... Europe without the U.K.; without their input, politically and culturally, is no longer Europe.

Today, Europe de facto ceased to exist; in its idea, in its ideals.

Europe is a mess, but will become a bigger mess when the wish to return to Nation States and the way things were will gain momentum and more exits will follow. That saddens me deeply.

Hence the *kill me if you like* part: either it happens now or in the next - truly devastating - war in Europe.

petitmal: Well, kill me if you like, but I am sad. I respect the decision; I sincerely hope it is going to work out the way they (the Brexiteers) hope, however... Europe without the U.K.; without their input, politically and culturally, is no longer Europe.

Today, Europe de facto ceased to exist; in its idea, in its ideals.

Europe is a mess, but will become a bigger mess when the wish to return to Nation States and the way things were will gain momentum and more exits will follow. That saddens me deeply.

Hence the *kill me if you like* part: either it happens now or in the next - truly devastating - war in Europe.

(The upside to all of this that today we have games to practice and prepare for this grim future).

johnnygoging: slavic style.

johnnygoging: really? the germans are not individualistic? I thought they were very liberal (I goddamn hate political language. just trying to get meaning across)-minded. I thought culturally they were different that way from other Eastern European societies. maybe more conservative but still very much in a camp of the more "humane" European countries. Almost more American or British or Western in some regards while still diverging from those countries with heavy European cultural elements. What you describe is very different from what I thought and puts them in a more slavic style.

mg1979: Calais jungle, if you think this kind of things didn't play a role in the Leave decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJbqsBALucA&list=PLUJqQaUfcBW35T3PD2jNUhes3nsPMGt-2

Dalthnock: It's just not a part of the European Union, or at least, it's politically independent.

tinyE: It was Samuel Clemens but close enough. :P

dtgreene: Actually, the UK is *still* a part of the European Union; there is still a lengthy process that needs to be followed in order for the UK to *actually* exit.