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Navagon: At first I was somewhat miffed at how the EU wants to slam the door in our face given the less than 2% of the electorate that sealed the deal for Brexit. I thought that surely given that the process in theory should involve 2 years of discussion, including the possibility of deals to make the leaving country reconsider, that they'd be willing to throw some small concession our way to provoke another referendum and keep their stock of cash cows optimal.
Well, the concessions were made before, and the attitude of Cameron to get these concessions was somehow perceived as blackmail. My understanding is that the EU aws prepared, not surprised, and its reaction was simply the by the book application of a contingency scenario. The fact Cameron resigns , but not with immediate effect, is also making it impossible for the EU to negotiate with him.
So , to summarize the feelings as we perceive it here, sadness to see the country leaving, anger towards Cameron.

Regarding feeling of continentals towards the EU, you have on one side the rabid nationalists who hate the EU idea ( and so many other things ) , on the other the mass of those who have seen the EU applying by the book the wonderful ideas of Frau Angela, ie regaining competitiveness by a systematic, constant dévaluation of well-being . The second category opposes above all the current governments , not the EU idea.
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catpower1980: Anyway, that will be my last post in this thread. Not that I don't want to debate but I think that now, the most reasonable thing to do is to just sit back, chill out and see how things will turn out in the upcoming months now that the dices have been rolled.

Peace. Love.
Agree and will take the same line ;-)
Post edited June 24, 2016 by Phc7006
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morolf: Hispanic? Is that a language?
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Emob78: Yes, but they recently changed it HERspanic for reasons beyond my comprehension.
thanks, that made me smile :-)
Yeah, well, except the UK is still in Europe & SCS Software has already done a UK Truck Driving Simulator in 2010.

http://www.uktrucksimulator.com/

So that guy is either a fake gamer, or not very funny. Probably both.

Yes, fake gamer! Just like Manowar's "false metal", only with games!
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morolf: Hispanic? Is that a language?
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Emob78: Yes, but they recently changed it HERspanic for reasons beyond my comprehension.
UPVOTED!
Post edited June 25, 2016 by Dalthnock
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Emob78: Yes, but they recently changed it HERspanic for reasons beyond my comprehension.
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morolf: thanks, that made me smile :-)
Yo tengo mucho jajajajajajaja...
I voted to leave, whether I made the right choice or not I will not know for several years yet.

What this thread has taught me though is that because I voted leave I am an uneducated, far-right neo-nazi and apparently old(!).

Now I am sad.
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Doc0075: I voted to leave, whether I made the right choice or not I will not know for several years yet.

What this thread has taught me though is that because I voted leave I am an uneducated, far-right neo-nazi and apparently old(!).

Now I am sad.
Don't feel bad, over half of Britain is too. The medias told me so!
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morolf: Hispanic? Is that a language?
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Emob78: Yes, but they recently changed it HERspanic for reasons beyond my comprehension.
DON'T PANIC!
I just thought this news article was hilariously well timed coming out yesterday...

For all those who claim immigration is out of control:

"The rise of 513,300 in the year to June 2015 was in line with average annual rises over the last decade, it said."

So not much has actually changed in a decade (and probably longer)

Also:

"Elsewhere, the figure for natural growth was at its lowest for 10 years."

So without immigration the young would be rapidly out numbered by the old (an unsupportable position) and the country would not fare well..
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catpower1980: I guess so as I was a far-leftist 20 years ago but turned far-right over the years seeing how the left turned out. I found very interesting to make comparisons between Brexit voters, far-right voters in France and the voters for Höfer in your country as they are what I would crudely call "the leftovers of the system"(damn, that makes me one of them ^o^). Actually most "nationalist" voters nowadays are the working class which got abandoned by the "neo-left" which is now more trying to please employees of the big cities because it's easier to cater to them. And naturally we can add the eternal duality between cities and the countryside into the mix.....

About the age of youngsters, it's normal there's a generation clash as for people over 30 like me, we still vividly remember the 80's and 90's, back when EU was not so prevalent so we can still make comparisons. On the contrary, millenials always lived within the EU system so they don't know that an alternative can exist. Then to get more ideological, I would add that the millenial generation has been raised up in comfort and as perpetual consumers. It then raises the question of the lack of resilience of this generation (due to medias and poor education) thus the idea of a technocratic Europe is more appealing as they can be spoonfed and don't have to choose politically-wise.
I can completely relate to your experience, the left has pushed me right in the last 6 months as well, though I never subscribe to an ideal completely.

For example, though I like my culture, I will always feel that other cultures are equally valid. I'll never go far-right because I cannot subscribe to the idea that one human being is somehow lesser or greater based on racial aspects.

The same as I was leaning a bit more left, I could never subscribe to the idea of communism, or Marxism, or whatever.

But lately the left has been more & more unreasonable, demanding & as evidenced in a few examples I provided earlier in the thread, every bit as fascist, if not more so, than the far-right, thus making the right extremely appealing in the current political climate.

And there seems to be an equal sentiment across the West, though I fear many people WILL subscribe to the whole pre-packaged ideals & won't be so picky. That solution is not what I want, either.

I just wish people would be a bit more centred. Not self-centred, as they are now, centred as in balanced in ideals, a bit of this & that, without subscribing to the more extreme ideals.

Your assessment of the millennials & their EU perspective is spot on. They claim old people can't be trusted, but that means young people can't be trusted either, as they don't know any better. Which is why denying the right to vote to subsections of the population is a horrible - leftist - idea.

There's enough arguments to deny everyone the right to vote. Well, except me, though I can't really be arsed to do it most of the time. :p
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Emob78: Yes, but they recently changed it HERspanic for reasons beyond my comprehension.
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Zabohad: DON'T PANIC!
OK.

Panic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1cs2lXXOuU
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Navagon: At first I was somewhat miffed at how the EU wants to slam the door in our face given the less than 2% of the electorate that sealed the deal for Brexit. I thought that surely given that the process in theory should involve 2 years of discussion, including the possibility of deals to make the leaving country reconsider, that they'd be willing to throw some small concession our way to provoke another referendum and keep their stock of cash cows optimal.
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Phc7006: Well, the concessions were made before, and the attitude of Cameron to get these concessions was somehow perceived as blackmail. My understanding is that the EU aws prepared, not surprised, and its reaction was simply the by the book application of a contingency scenario. The fact Cameron resigns , but not with immediate effect, is also making it impossible for the EU to negotiate with him.
So , to summarize the feelings as we perceive it here, sadness to see the country leaving, anger towards Cameron.

Regarding feeling of continentals towards the EU, you have on one side the rabid nationalists who hate the EU idea ( and so many other things ) , on the other the mass of those who have seen the EU applying by the book the wonderful ideas of Frau Angela, ie regaining competitiveness by a systematic, constant dévaluation of well-being . The second category opposes above all the current governments , not the EU idea.
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catpower1980: Anyway, that will be my last post in this thread. Not that I don't want to debate but I think that now, the most reasonable thing to do is to just sit back, chill out and see how things will turn out in the upcoming months now that the dices have been rolled.

Peace. Love.
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Phc7006: Agree and will take the same line ;-)
I respect your wish( and catpowers) to withdraw from the argument and I am not looking for a response unless you either of you wish to give it.

Cameron came to the EU asking for concessions and by your words the EU was unsurprised, prepared and viewed these concessions as blackmail. Cameron walked away with nothing.

Many here in Britain note well that Cameron walked away with nothing.

Do you believe Cameron had nothing to bargain? If he had nothing to bargain, why do we hear from almost every european political state and single market that the entire world now has a problem to fear from Britain leaving?
Post edited June 25, 2016 by lazydog
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adaliabooks: I just thought this news article was hilariously well timed coming out yesterday...

For all those who claim immigration is out of control:

"The rise of 513,300 in the year to June 2015 was in line with average annual rises over the last decade, it said."

So not much has actually changed in a decade (and probably longer)

Also:

"Elsewhere, the figure for natural growth was at its lowest for 10 years."

So without immigration the young would be rapidly out numbered by the old (an unsupportable position) and the country would not fare well..
Immigration to Britain has been out of control since 1997. New Labour deliberately threw the doors wide open, and they've never really been closed again. Immigration levels were much lower before 1997.
Very interesting, long article about the impact of mass immigration on Britain:
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/unmaking-england/
But of course, this is mostly the fault of Britain's own political establishment and has only a limited connection to the EU (even immigration of Poles and other Eastern Europeans would have been much lower if Britain had restricted it during a transition period as Germany and France did). It saddens me that Britain is opting out of European cooperation because of an understandable backlash against the multiculturalism and mass immigration promoted by Britain's own elites for decades.
Post edited June 25, 2016 by morolf
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Doc0075: I voted to leave, whether I made the right choice or not I will not know for several years yet.

What this thread has taught me though is that because I voted leave I am an uneducated, far-right neo-nazi and apparently old(!).

Now I am sad.
Well, these things happen.

You're walking along minding your own business, the next day a picture of you presiding over a sex party of hot mature mommas & a half-dozen QLTs is plastered all over the country, newspapers & TV.

Er... not that this has ever happened to me. It's just an example.
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Doc0075: I voted to leave, whether I made the right choice or not I will not know for several years yet.

What this thread has taught me though is that because I voted leave I am an uneducated, far-right neo-nazi and apparently old(!).

Now I am sad.
Don't believe the hype.

You made a choice. That is what matters above all else.
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morolf: It saddens me that Britain is opting out of European cooperation because of an understandable backlash against the multiculturalism and mass immigration promoted by Britain's own elites for decades.
Do you really believe this was all due to the migrants, or refugees, or whatever?

Do you really believe there were no other political reasons? No economical reasons, either?

Do you really believe that?
Post edited June 25, 2016 by Dalthnock