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mrkgnao: 3) Not buying on GOG does not in any way imply buying on Steam --- one can buy from neither
4) If one compares stores that do carry DRM, it might be considered sensible to buy from a store that sells them cheap and keeps them up to date, rather than from one that sells them dear and does not
Also, while I never used Steam and have no intention of doing so, there is a difference between a store that promised to be DRM-free, clearly stated they consider DRM to be wrong and bad for gaming and built it's reputation, identity and early success on that, and a store that never said anything of the sort nor promised anything in this regard.
Post edited February 10, 2021 by Breja
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mrkgnao: 3) Not buying on GOG does not in any way imply buying on Steam --- one can buy from neither
4) If one compares stores that do carry DRM, it might be considered sensible to buy from a store that sells them cheap and keeps them up to date, rather than from one that sells them dear and does not
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Breja: Also, while I never used Steam and have no intention of doing so, there is a difference between a store that promised to be DRM-free, clearly stated they consider DRM to be wrong and bad for gaming and built it's reputation, identity and early success on that, and a store that never said anything of the sort nor promised anything in this regard.
Very true.

And I too have never used Steam, although if I decide to return to buying games again (with this boycott, I currently don't), I am not dismissing the idea of buying on Steam, rather than on GOG, now that I learned that Steam has at a couple of thousand DRM-free games and you don't even need the full steam client to download and install them. Still hoping that GOG gets its act together and I won't have to do that, though.
Post edited February 10, 2021 by mrkgnao
So, according to the recent posts in this thread, it seems the DRM in No Man's Sky has now been removed in the latest patch by Hello Games. This is great news and addresses one of the points mentioned in issue #2. My thanks and respect go to Hello Games for listening to their users.

However, I am not convinced that GOG had much to do with it, given their reticent lack of communication regarding the topic. So, I am not going to let them off the hook at this point. I would like to see some other games on this list addressed, if I am going to be convinced that GOG intends to properly enforce their DRM-free policy.

Also, Devotion still hasn't been released and GOG hasn't responded to the almost 9000 users who have signed the wishlist request. For me personally, this is a deal breaker. Devotion needs to be released, before I would consider ending my boycott.

Still, this is a step in the right direction (along with the recent addressing of the DRM in Wasteland 3). These are encouraging signs and hopefully we will see GOG doing more to put pressure on their partners to keep DRM off of GOG.
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coffee_darkness: interesting points I guess... what does the GOG DRM free guarantee even really mean?

But yeah I guess even that little bit of requirement is DRM... but where do you draw the line I guess... expect every developer to post their game and all updates on a totally open website? or at least allow them an unobtrusive method of at least not allowing moochers to get the game for free?
Yes, precisely. That is what DRM-free means. If a game has any sort of coded-in feature that would prevent 'moochers getting the game for free' (a.k.a. purchase verification), that would be DRM, by any definition. Also, please bear in mind that DRM does practically nothing to prevent piracy. There is no form of DRM that has not been cracked.

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coffee_darkness: But I bet the OP thinks that GALAXY == DRM which it isn't ... yet? and better not become such
Nope. The Galaxy client is not DRM (as long as it remains optional and up-to-date offline installers are available). I didn't say it was and my beef with Galaxy is more to do with the rewards that are being given only to Galaxy customers (giving the impression they are preferred) and the huge proportion of GOG's resources that are being funneled into it, to the neglect of other aspects of the site (and the offline installers).

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coffee_darkness: people complain that facebook for example tracks them... well guess what? FB isn't free really what it is is an site the costs your privacy for the convenience of posting stuff and hosting stuff. The same is true for galaxy but hopefully no where near to the extent of FB... if you don't like it, don't use it, but also don't complain about the payment for something that requires work to produce
I don't like or use Facebook and I don't use Galaxy either. Again, my beef with it are the issues I mentioned above.
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Time4Tea: So, according to the recent posts in this thread, it seems the DRM in No Man's Sky has now been removed in the latest patch by Hello Games. This is great news and addresses one of the points mentioned in issue #2. My thanks and respect go to Hello Games for listening to their users.

However, I am not convinced that GOG had much to do with it, given their reticent lack of communication regarding the topic. So, I am not going to let them off the hook at this point. I would like to see some other games on this list addressed, if I am going to be convinced that GOG intends to properly enforce their DRM-free policy.

Also, Devotion still hasn't been released and GOG hasn't responded to the almost 9000 users who have signed the wishlist request. For me personally, this is a deal breaker. Devotion needs to be released, before I would consider ending my boycott.

Still, this is a step in the right direction (along with the recent addressing of the DRM in Wasteland 3). These are encouraging signs and hopefully we will see GOG doing more to put pressure on their partners to keep DRM off of GOG.
I don't know whether GOG had anything to do with the NMS fix --- I doubt it --- but, regardless, judging by the GOG NMS game page, they are either unaware that anything has changed, or don't care enough to update the page promptly, for it still reads:
"The game features online components introduced in updates (SYNTHESIS, BYTEBEAT, LIVING SHIP, EXO MECH, CROSSPLAY, DESOLATION and ORIGINS) that require Internet connection"
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mrkgnao: I don't know whether GOG had anything to do with the NMS fix --- I doubt it --- but, regardless, judging by the GOG NMS game page, they are either unaware that anything has changed, or don't care enough to update the page promptly, for it still reads:
"The game features online components introduced in updates (SYNTHESIS, BYTEBEAT, LIVING SHIP, EXO MECH, CROSSPLAY, DESOLATION and ORIGINS) that require Internet connection"
Yes, I noticed that as well :-)
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StrongSoldier: Boycott gog ... the only store not drm ...

And above buying on steam which is drm and with monopolistic behaviors ...

With two eggs...
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Truth007: Didn't you already say this? Also there are other stores with no drm. gog does have drm by the way.
No, gog does not have drm in almost all of its catalog. In no mans sky they have already corrected it.

And the objectionable is gwent.

I have been able to play my entire catalog offline and without gog galaxy.

It is the only store that has promoted no drm. Now you are going to load it.

Thank you.
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Maybe it's just me, but don't y'all have anything better to do?
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Truth007: Didn't you already say this? Also there are other stores with no drm. gog does have drm by the way.
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StrongSoldier: No, gog does not have drm in almost all of its catalog. In no mans sky they have already corrected it.

And the objectionable is gwent.

I have been able to play my entire catalog offline and without gog galaxy.

It is the only store that has promoted no drm. Now you are going to load it.

Thank you.
Some people have a problem to understand this. Thank YOU, mate.
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Truth007: Didn't you already say this? Also there are other stores with no drm. gog does have drm by the way.
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StrongSoldier: No, gog does not have drm in almost all of its catalog. In no mans sky they have already corrected it.

And the objectionable is gwent.

I have been able to play my entire catalog offline and without gog galaxy.

It is the only store that has promoted no drm. Now you are going to load it.

Thank you.
This is the first time I've seen the word "load" used like that. Is that slang for "put out of business"?
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I have no idea how I got here and hope I can find the way back. Grandma.. I understand what you are going through every day, love ya.
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Truth007: Didn't you already say this? Also there are other stores with no drm. gog does have drm by the way.
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StrongSoldier: No, gog does not have drm in almost all of its catalog. In no mans sky they have already corrected it.

And the objectionable is gwent.

I have been able to play my entire catalog offline and without gog galaxy.

It is the only store that has promoted no drm. Now you are going to load it.

Thank you.
I never said most, I said they have games with drm which is a fact. no mans sky isn't the only game, several titles require galaxy/3rd party account if I want to play multiplayer. You probably don't have a game that requires galaxy to play online, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist however. Like I said it isn't the only store that has promoted no drm, they themselves endorse drm by having it on some games and also epic games sold on galaxy which is a product from gog.
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B1tF1ghter: Actually it really doesn't matter how many PEOPLE do this.
What is important is how much potential spend is lost in the process.
Few high spenders can make the same impact as a whole plethora of casual spenders.
So number of PEOPLE doesn't matter BY ITSELF.
There is at least a bunch of people here in this thread alone that are loyal customers and had regular spend on GOG in past years.
Now that that's gone it punches a hole in GOG's revenue. How big is a question I cannot answer.
But it's not "non existent". It does make an impact.
If we would manage to collect here a whole lot of HVT's then GOG would get considerably financially impacted and would maybe "already" notice that the problems they produce will not go unnoticed.
But since boycott adoption rate is slow it's also slow to gain HVTs here.
That's why it's important to gain as much supporters as possible regardless of their spend size so that we EVENTUALLY punch big enough hole in GOG's finances for them to start noticing and doing something about it.

Saying "oh it's only ~100 people so I will not join because the boycott is small" is basically admitting to refusing to take actions on a problem, refusing to get out of your comfort zone and use your will to change what's wrong with this world.
It's only adding to the general insult.
OFC the more "big spenders" (at which annual/monthly/weekly amount is someone considered a "big spender") really participate (not just on paper) is better. But I think really change is only achieved through masses of people stopping their purchases (small or big), because the majority of custumors arent prob "big spenders". Big income is always generated by many not few.

If the hole is not big enough the higher ups wont notice. In the Devotion whishlist thread a user is positing the revenue lost for GOG since he stopped buying games because of the issues he has with GOG handeling the Devotion case and other stuff. Maybe you guys could pull something like this here too.

Last, I never said I dont activley join the boycott because there are "not enough people". I don't join the boycott, because for me personally I am not at my point of dissatisfaction with GOG to go into boycott. But for all who are at this point already, I really hope it will be a success for you guys :)

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coffee_darkness: is it "I can download an offline installer, run it and play the game totally offline?"
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B1tF1ghter: That's what GOG advertises and as customers we shouldn't expect the company to lie in our faces.
But GOG does anyway.
All games I own can be played without galaxy. I dont play ONLINE MULTIPLAYER (for them you kinda need to connect to servers so its kinda mandatory to be ONLINE and connected I dont see this as DRM (but I dont play these games either I am a single player game nerd). For cosmetics locked behind MULTIPLAYER in some games... well I dont care for cosmetics and really dont get why optional cosmetics are important for games. The important question for me is: Can I play the game as it is intended offline without missing out on story relevant elements? If thats locked behind some online requirement for a SINGLEPLAYER game than yeah we are talking DRM imo.

Another small note on COSMETIC stuff. If you get cosmetic stuff for a game you can preorder (and you dont preorder) you dont get the cosmetic stuff. Is it DRM? No. Is preordering these days a questionable practice by itself? Yes. Do I have to preorder? No. Can I play the game without preordering and without the cosmetic goodies? Yes. For me thats the same as having an optional goodie behind an optional Multiplayer I wont touch.

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coffee_darkness: but where do you draw the line I guess... expect every developer to post their game and all updates on a totally open website? or at least allow them an unobtrusive method of at least not allowing moochers to get the game for free?
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B1tF1ghter: You are basically suggesting using some form of DRM in this day and age is justified for the sake of actual customers.
Which it is really not.
Agreed.

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coffee_darkness: But I bet the OP thinks that GALAXY == DRM which it isn't
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B1tF1ghter: You know, basically like every other page someone like you turns up who doesn't understand that:
A.GOG Galaxy is explicitly called by GOG themselves as ALWAYS OPTIONAL
B.If some piece of in-game content is locked behind a launcher (which, mind you, is severely reducing game run capabilities since it has higher system requirements than many old games, therefore if you want to play an old game with Galaxy you either have to use new system or you just can't while if you would play without it you can play it on an older system) it IS a DRM. And at that point Galaxy is no longer "optional" - it's not "Galaxy is optional to get this content" - it is "Galaxy is mandatory to obtain this optional content".
Why would I need to play n old game with the galaxy launcher, as far as I know there is NO tiny bit of content not even cosmetic shit of old games locked behind the Galaxy launcher. If there is any I would like to learn which games cause I dont seem to own them.

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coffee_darkness: But as for pushing galaxy or not.. meh.. I personally don't mind it and kind of like the experience since I don't have to open my browser up for becoming a game maintenance platform
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B1tF1ghter: "convenience over freedom"
Seems like alarmingly growing trend these days.
We can agree on "convenience over freedom" is not the trend the world should adapt to. However, imo as long as you have a personal choice, and you can choose to opt in a service knowing what the "price" aka data collection is and opt out and not pay the price and still get almost no drawback besides not getting optional COSMETIC content (when did we all start to care so much about cosmetic shit in games) i am ok with the freedom of choice.

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The_Puppet94: As soon as it starts phoneing home weird shit it gets shredded into bits and bytes and good bye Galaxy.
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B1tF1ghter: I hate to break it to you but it definitely does have telemetry.
At the very least it definitely scans and uploads info on your hardware/system config and I personally don't see how that is related to or could help your gaming experience and your personal life business.
Can you give me more info on that topic? I am really interested. What info does get collected and phoned home? Is it "just" my hardware settings, like which shitty CPU does the thinking in my PC and which shitty GPU does the pixel math? If it goes deeper my relationship with Galaxy gets terminated, if its "just" the above... well my Windows 10 Pro phones more infos home and I can't do shit about it ( I already did turn off what I possibly could).
For all the steam DRM users in this thread:

https://reclaimthenet.org/steam-to-officially-launch-in-china/
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Vendor-Lazarus: For all the steam DRM users in this thread:

https://reclaimthenet.org/steam-to-officially-launch-in-china/
Meanwhile gog thinks they're in the safe because they cancelled the release of one game. lol

They're coming for ya, gog! It's only a matter of time... And when they do, you will be wondering if alienating the rest of your userbase was worth appeasing a luctrative but very volatile market.