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Nathaniel22: 1. Islam is not a race, so everyone with a functional brain should stop using the word "racist". Thanks.
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CaptainKremin: Then why is it reffered to as the 'Nation of Islam'... and stop splitting hairs... if you are descriminated because of race, colour, or religion it is GENERALLY reffered to as rascist.. although not entirely 100% accurate.

What do you suggest? That we further muddy the waters with even more sub categories of discriminatory classification?

Just be glad your opinions are taken into account at all instead of finding more things to bitch about.
Islam ist not a race. Nation of Islamis also not a race. People from different races can live within a country, just like people from a different race can be muslim.

I do not know how you handle this in the UK, but we in Germany do not use the word "racist" for the discrimination of religion, because it obviously doesn't apply (see above).

My point being is, that people very often play out the "racist-card" to have the ultimate argument, even if it does not apply. Just because of the sound and the negative association of the word "racist". We germans hate that, because everyone who thinks he is not treated correct here in germany because of his origin, will play out the "racist-card".

Islam is not a race. Thanks.
Post edited June 03, 2011 by Nathaniel22
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shivnz: you know, how like bioware found an issue of not everyone being gay in the first dragon age game, and 'fixed it'... did you applaud that too? or did you find it as silly and ridiculous as all examples of stupid political correctness - including this one.
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sear: I don't think it's fair to compare BioWare's utterly obvious cost-cutting, poorly-thought-out and fanservice-driven model to designing (and redesigning) their characters to CD Projekt's quick swap of a couple DDS files, which probably took all of 5-10 minutes to do.
its the reasoning BEHIND it that im comparing. both are examples of wanting to be as politically correct as possible, making design decisions great AND small for the sake of making sure that no one is offended, rather than letting DESIGN and CREATIVITY drive decisions.

someone thought the rug design was cool, and shoved it in - so IN it should have STAYED.

it doesnt matter how big the change... its the fact political correctness and the fact people will find ANYTHING to be offended at, no matter how stupidly small, has once again dictated creative art.

its the principle of the thing. we shouldnt let this kind of stuff dictate how creative endeavors develop.

because bioware has shown us exactly the path it will take when we let it manipulate and guide what should be creative entertainment.
Post edited June 03, 2011 by shivnz
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sear: This thread is utterly absurd.
I cannot believe that so many people here are offended by a single texture being removed on the basis that it may be offensive to a group of people.
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Seph22: ZERO person reported to be offended here or anywhere so far, can we stop making things up?

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Oddhermit: A fair point, although it depends on how you define demand, I suppose. From what I understand it implies a right, usually, an authority - one that Muslims don't actually have. It's different from just asking.

Regardless it's an entirely unreasonable demand for Muslims to make, and no one should feel pressured to meet such a demand.
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Seph22: I don't see the pressure that you speak off honestly, if you see the news there are always people who are not even religious who report being offended over something like TV ads or political statement against certain thing or race, Muslims are just like any other human when something is sensitive to them they speak their opinion and others are not obligated to listen of course, in CDP case they did something which i do find respectful to me and i said thanks that's all :)
Clearly it was reported to CDPR, or else they wouldn't have changed it. Why would someone bring their issue up on the GOG forums, which aren't even the game's official forums? There is a support ticket on thewitcher.com for a reason.
Post edited June 03, 2011 by Fayth
You know what would make me more tolerant?

Get rid of the face masks for your women and stop having so many of your people led by fanatical religious leaders who do nothing for the understanding of your religion except cause antagonism.

You want me to make allowances for you.. then make some for me.
Ah, the curse of popularity, every interest group hover over you and whip you to their direction!

I will just grap a popcorn and watch Muslim and gay group pounding each other for the soul of Geralt in the Witcher 3! That's going to be a classic!
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Seph22: ZERO person reported to be offended here or anywhere so far, can we stop making things up?
I'm detecting significant amounts of butthurt coming from certain people here who feel their entertainment experience has been compromised by the replacement of a single texture they never noticed in the first place. But alas, I suppose the people throwing around accusations of terrorist propaganda might just be a bunch of trolls.

Still, though, I hear you can just stick a new texture in the game's CookedPC directory and override the replacement. Yes, that's right, not-offended people, your misused religious iconography can be preserved! For maximum results, you can even replace drowner models with stereotypical depictions of Muslim suicide bombers, so that you too can fight the good fight for America the Glorious even as you're gaming! We are in a brave new world indeed.
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Seph22: ZERO person reported to be offended here or anywhere so far, can we stop making things up?
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sear: I'm detecting significant amounts of butthurt coming from certain people here who feel their entertainment experience has been compromised by the replacement of a single texture they never noticed in the first place. But alas, I suppose the people throwing around accusations of terrorist propaganda might just be a bunch of trolls.

Still, though, I hear you can just stick a new texture in the game's CookedPC directory and override the replacement. Yes, that's right, not-offended people, your misused religious iconography can be preserved! For maximum results, you can even replace drowner models with stereotypical depictions of Muslim suicide bombers, so that you too can fight the good fight for America the Glorious even as you're gaming! We are in a brave new world indeed.
you miss the point. its not WHAT has been removed, nor is it our ENJOYMENT of whats been removed (which admittedly is a non-issue, because no one here is actually going to miss it - if they even ever were aware of it...)

no, the issue is WHY it was removed, and its something we SHOULD rage and fight against. political correctness driving design decisions in gaming is a terrible thing, just like it is in ALL media, and we SHOULD fight against it, no matter how small, because the reason behind it should not be tolerated, because where will it end?
Post edited June 03, 2011 by shivnz
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Seph22: ZERO person reported to be offended here or anywhere so far, can we stop making things up?
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sear: I'm detecting significant amounts of butthurt coming from certain people here who feel their entertainment experience has been compromised by the replacement of a single texture they never noticed in the first place. But alas, I suppose the people throwing around accusations of terrorist propaganda might just be a bunch of trolls.

Still, though, I hear you can just stick a new texture in the game's CookedPC directory and override the replacement. Yes, that's right, not-offended people, your misused religious iconography can be preserved! For maximum results, you can even replace drowner models with stereotypical depictions of Muslim suicide bombers, so that you too can fight the good fight for America the Glorious even as you're gaming! We are in a brave new world indeed.
And do you know what I see?

All I see is yet something else being compromised in the name of not wanting to piss off a notoriously violent and reactive section of people... and the fact that I was brought up as a freedom loving proponent of free speech.. I feel I have every right to get angry at this sort of pandering.

If those who would object to this material don't like it or for some UNREASONABLE reason are offended... then don't fucking buy it... stay away... don't annoy me with your restrictive and decidely unfreedom loving demands..

Oh.. and if you decide to get violent about it.. expect the same in return.
Post edited June 03, 2011 by CaptainKremin
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shivnz: you miss the point. its not WHAT has been removed, nor is it our ENJOYMENT of whats been removed (which admittedly is a non-issue, because no one here is actually going to miss it - if they even ever were aware of it...)

no, the issue is WHY it was removed, and its something we SHOULD rage and fight against. political correctness driving design decisions in gaming is a terrible thing, just like it is in ALL media, and we SHOULD fight against it.
I refer you to my previous post (page 7) where I addressed precisely this point.
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Seph22: Your post brain damaged me due the amount of nonsense and fail in it, Muslims don't need brothels and such things (specially when it's Crime here) they can marry 4 women at the sametime and divorce is easy the only hypocrite here knows himself :)

At least if you wanna hate on something know what you are hating about instead of being total ignorant.
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Gidzin: Please enlighten me, I'm not hating on Muslims just hyperbolizing if (for example) Madonna wears a hypoticritally cross I must hate Madonna....just stating observation If some Muslims want to get offended at a prayer looking rug in the game then thats their interpretation and an afront to their fragile faith???
Some Muslims abuse their "laws" against prostitution by "marrying" their mates ...do their thing and atone for their "sin" by announcing "I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you" according to their "law". They get what they want, and are sanctified by their so called justification!! That's hypocracy!! We are not to "judge" (implication is to damnation)but we are to judge ourselves. I'm not condemning anyone, just exposing intents of some hearts!!

Your abuse of my statements and turning it into "hatred" is atypical of being overly offended and ignorently presumptuous. I'm not sure what your "religion" is but it seems far from loving. Salome
Salome is jews goodbye, not Islamic, it's Salam

And again strike of another ignorant post i say stick to other things instead of talking about things you don't know about like islam, we can't get married and divorce as if nothing ever happened the law you say we abuse can not be abused by any muslim due how the rules are set about it which protect women under it.

Marriage with the "intention of divorce" in advance is considered Haram which means the marriage is not acceptable to god

The man have to be FAIR between his wifes 100% that's why most men marry only 1 because they fear being unable to be fair between each one

If she had a child the man have to support the kid+women for life even after a divorce unlike the west where a man can even deny DNA test and abandon both the mother and kid etc

and million other rule which i don't have to mention to a guy who talk crap about things and play expert when he lacks even the basics,

Watch this then talk again more nonsense http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCxZ2hsIlvQ
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Seph22: I don't see the pressure that you speak off honestly, if you see the news there are always people who are not even religious who report being offended over something like TV ads or political statement against certain thing or race, Muslims are just like any other human when something is sensitive to them they speak their opinion and others are not obligated to listen of course, in CDP case they did something which i do find respectful to me and i said thanks that's all :)
The pressure comes from the reputation Muslim extremists have given Muslims in general, and fear or repercussions from such Muslims. I'm not saying all Muslims are violent extremists, although the religion is certainly supportive of violent behavior just like the other monotheistic religions, but I understand most ignore or dismiss those laws/verses. However, even if those extremists are a minority, they get noticed more than "moderate" Muslims.

I realize this particular thing likely wasn't at all the same sort of thing as the danish cartoonist incident that sparked this sensitivity and hostility toward Muslims, but you can understand why people now feel threatened when Muslims make similar demands after recent incidents can't you?
Post edited June 03, 2011 by Oddhermit
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Seph22: I don't see the pressure that you speak off honestly, if you see the news there are always people who are not even religious who report being offended over something like TV ads or political statement against certain thing or race, Muslims are just like any other human when something is sensitive to them they speak their opinion and others are not obligated to listen of course, in CDP case they did something which i do find respectful to me and i said thanks that's all :)
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Oddhermit: The pressure comes from the reputation Muslim extremists have given Muslims in general, and fear or repercussions from such Muslims. I'm not saying all Muslims are violent extremists, although the religion is certainly supportive of violent behavior just like the other monotheistic religions, but I understand most ignore or dismiss those laws/verses. However, even if those extremists are a minority, they get noticed more than "moderate" Muslims.

I realize this particular thing likely wasn't at all the same sort of thing as the danish cartoonist incident that sparked this sensitivity and hostility toward Muslims, but you can understand why people now feel threatened when Muslims make similar demands after recent incidents can't you?
It's unfair to say Islam support violent and just to think it's similar to other religious books, i have read the Quran plenty of times and there is no violent in it (people who does say it does always quote the same 2 verses which seems violent but never show the verse before it and after it, it's basically Muslims being slaughtered 1400 years ago by an enemy that just hates them for not worshiping dolls which were gods at the time by some people and god is not giving them the right to fight back but then god gave the enemy a warning of 4 months to stop killing Muslims or face a fight by Muslims and that's it and what is mentioned in the book even then that fight did not take place because the mentioned enemy did surrender and they were not taking prisoners and was free )

i don't think CDP felt any pressure about a rug this and the danish cartoon are way different (the danish guy was basically saying the Muslims prophet is a terrorist and bomber in his paints) not even close to this case

Casual Muslim, Strict Muslim , modern Muslim, Practicing Muslim, none-practicing Muslim- extreme Muslim etc these are all names created by the west and unheard of in the Islamic world, we have a Muslim and none Muslim , what you call Extremist are terrorists that is unrelated to islam and hi-jackers and about every islamic country is fully supporting USA and europe in finding these terrorists since most of the victims who dies from those are Muslims themselves according to all statics reven from USA itself, you don't call the freak terrorist who bombed Oklahoma hospital in America a christian

Stoning women is in the bible not in the Quran yet people always stick every thing they can think of to Quran, the Quran is the most beautiful book if anyone actually read it instead of saying what none-muslims say about it, someone here said blood/rape/incest/beheading etc those are not mentioned in the quran too but does in the bible

I'm a Muslim by choice not force why would i follow a religion that is violent or against humanism? i have to live with the fact though that people will call me violent/terrorist/insult me for life i guess, if any other religion faced 5% of the attack against islam it wouldn't even last a decade yet islam is growing faster than growing of population worldwide this alone speaks volume.
Post edited June 03, 2011 by Seph22
So now you're now insulting other religions and claiming yours as somehow superior? Not cool. -10 respect points to OP.
Post edited June 03, 2011 by deeviusnz
@Seph22

I'm confused. If it doesn't bother you and you supposedly don't care, why are you so grateful that they changed it? To thank them for it implies that you like the game better now that an element of your religion is not in it...which in turn implies that you like it less WITH that element. You're thanking them for being nice? So...what? You think that if they had left the texture as it is that that would somehow constitute them being "not nice"?

Look...I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon of claiming that CD Projekt is bowing to some kind of threat or pressure...but this whole thing just stinks a bit somehow.

Incidentally, does anyone know what exactly what changed about the texture? Was it completely changed or just the crescent shape on the top removed? Because in all honesty I don't think there's any need to completely redo the texture if that's the route they're going to take.
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Gvaz: I saw the rugs but I didn't know what they were, or give a crap about them.

Can we have a mod to have them back in?
Why? you just said you didn't give a crap before...