When I played Torment a few years back, I felt that while the writing and unique setting&lore are excellent, the plot and story itself are rather mediocre. I couldn't understand all the praise I hear about Torment's storytelling or story.

Namelessone is told to find Ravel to find his own identity. Then he is directed to Trias, then Pillars of skulls, then to the Fortress of regrets where he is told why he lost memories. There isn't any plot twist, unexpected turn of events, or plot complexity to speak of, and the story falls flat because of that.

Most of your companions besides Morte have insignificant relevance to the main story and Trias' betrayal feels out of nowhere without sufficient explanation. Moreover, you spend half the play time in Hive where nothing important really happens. Also, there is the lack of an antagonist or any NPCs in the game that commune with the main character throughout the story, keeping the story tense.

Lastly, the message; "What can change the nature of the man?" is not even the important message of the game. The Nameless One's 'nature' has already changed when he regretted his sin and wanted to atone. It's a story about what happens AFTER a man's nature has changed, and how to deal with the aftermess. The ending suggests that regret/repentance are the answers to one's sin; as if it's not something that's been told over and over.

I admit that Torment has great settings and interesting lore. The characters in the game feels alive and writing are excellent. However, I don't think the game has neither great story or storytelling.

I've played other games Chris Avallone wrote and I wasn't impressed. His other games, such as Mask of the Betrayer, Alpha Protocol and KOTOR II, again displayed unique setting and story but they were far from great in terms of storytelling. I feel Torment is overestimated. Wouldn't games like Witcher 2, Game of Thrones RPG fit better to the definition of great storytelling? Torment might have messages, but there are books that do that far better. As RPG that tells story goes, Torment feels mediocre to me without its "messages"(which I'm not even sure if meaningful) and "settings."

I want to understand the reason for so many praises to Torment's storytelling and story. I would really appreciate it if you could, IN DETAIL, elaborate/analyze why Torment is great in terms of storytelling and story, not just to convince me, but to prove that statement because in so many reviews/praises I've read about Torment, I failed to catch one good reason why it has the greatest story or storytelling ever. Is it really the best among all games(including adventure genre) as a lot of people makes it out to be? How so?

For me, it's how Torment uses the trappings of an RPG to do several unconventional things. Firstly, it's a character study, which is almost unheard of in the genre, both of the Nameless One and humanity itself. Secondly, the game manages to touch on a variety of themes throughout the game in various ways, from the main plot and party backstories to even the most mundane fetch quests.

I've gushed about that over here before; however, that post doesn't address all your points, from what I can gather. However, I'm a little pressed for time and the task of describing why Torment's story works so well (for me, at least) is one that demands much time to fully explain, so I can't reply in full just yet. I should be free after Wednesday to give a more complete answer, but in the meantime I have to do some last minute exam prep. I apologize for not being able to provide a more in depth response sooner, and I hope that my response, if you still have any interest in reading it by that time, will prove to a helpful response to your question.

There is no way to do that in an elaborate fashion. You've already said that you thought the story is excellent. What sets this game apart seems to be the question you are really asking, and that's fairly easy to answer, imo. It's a completely Original (notice the capital O) game.

I can't think of any game with a similar story at the time this game shipped (when I first bought it), or since. Everything in the game seems Original--artwork, premise, etc. The one thing that cannot be overestimated about this game is its Originality...;) I'm surprised the developer/publisher went ahead with it as often they are loathe to take a chance with new and original material--which is why so many games today are like movies--cookie cutter. In those days, however, games cost much less to make (games cost far too much today because of developer redundancies and inefficiencies), so it was far less risky for a publisher to do something original. Unless it might come through a Kickstarter project, I feel secure in saying that the game would not be made today.

I think that your criticisms are mostly valid. I found the encounter with Ravel to be fascinating. But then you're sent on a goose chase to find Trias and then the demon, and then the pillar. It feels like a lot of unnecessary steps just to be told the location of the Fortress. Trias' betrayal was an interesting idea. I like the idea that Trias is an angel who is evil out of his desire to do good, but I think that they didn't do enough to prepare us for his betrayal or explain it to us. In fact, the whole Curst part of the game isn't very well done. They probably didn't have time to do it properly. The nature of the town was only really explained by the people in the tunnels and there were few interesting things to do inside the town. The quest to get the five parts of the key for the bartender to then get access to the tunnels was really contrived. Why does this bartender hold the key to the tunnels and why must I run errands for five random strangers?

I don't find it to be a problem that your companions are not directly relevant to the story. They're just companions travelling with you. But it would have been interesting to have quests for them or just to take their story further. Fall-from-Grace doesn't have any hidden secrets. You never learn anything interesting about Annah. They didn't take your companions' stories very far. You also never really find out what Morte did exactly.

I don't find spending time in the Hive a problem, as that area was interesting in itself.

There's apparently this hidden tale in the game that you can't access normally. It's about you, Deionarra and her father:
Yves: "There was a man, a prestigious man, that for all his wealth and status was terribly unhappy. His daughter had perished, and what little was left of his life was shadowed by the gloom of her passing."
"So it happened that a former lover of the daughter came to him and spoke of her with meaning and feeling, restoring the light to his heart. And in so doing, both found two wholly different things, each of which would prove precious to them in separate ways."
"One found the spark of life returned to him, the gloom chased from his eyes and the corners of his mind."
"And the man, the lover, the petitioner found something else that was to prove more precious to him on his journey: regret."
"For it is regret that can change the nature of a man, it is said, though perhaps only the Gray Sisters know it for certain."
Yves nods at you, smiling. "I know not the meaning of this tale, but perhaps it will be of some use to you, in the future."

From this tale it seems that the game's answer to the question of "what can change the nature of a man" is "regret". I like that the game makes you think about this question and that it lets you give your own answer. I kind of agree with your statement that "The Nameless One's 'nature' has already changed when he regretted his sin and wanted to atone." But didn't he also try, after he had become immortal, to find a way change his own nature in order to escape punishment for his sins?

I didn't find the ending to be fully satisfying. You can never escape your punishment and so it seems that nothing can change your nature? Also, it seemed kind of cheap that you could continue escaping death by merging with your mortality. The whole point of the game was supposed to be about accepting your own death, or so I thought.

"I feel Torment is overestimated." There's no doubt that there are better books, but Torment is one of the best RPGs. It's clever, funny and witty. Most of it is very well written. There are a lot of cool ideas. The world of Sigil is original and interesting. And it has a pretty heavy philosophical side, which is not usual in RPGs normally based around killing zombies and rats.

Spoilers for the ending follow, obviously

My understanding was that if you follow through the "blade which can kill you" ending and merge with your mortality, you then die a short time later (perhaps because you've lived much longer than you should have done already). You have enough time to resurrect your companions, say your goodbyes, and return them to Sigil, but then you die - ending cutscene, etc, etc.

As for not escaping your punishment, perhaps not for some time. However, the aforementioned ending implies that your companions will eventually find and save you, at least with the dialogue my character received. In particular Fall-From-Grace's final lines imply that they'll reach you eventually. Perhaps that's unsurprising given that she's probably the one with the most experience of travelling the planes, and those planes in particular. Although the ending scene is exactly the same, it has a more positive feel with that perspective.

(Personally, I feel that thanks to them my nameless one eventually ended up on one of the good aligned planes, having a Good alignment. Thus he was redeemed, albeit not in a way the original incarnation had ever anticipated. That's just speculation, but it seemed to me the obvious conclusion to what had happened in the story and how my character had developed.)

With regards to the companions, most of their stories do actually relate to TNO's arc, but most of them only do so thematically. Fall-From-Grace is a reformed succubus, a living testament to how even an embodiment of Evil can change their nature. Vhailor's rigid adherence to life and Justice after death suggest that some natures are incapable of change, even upon death. Ignus, aside from being one of many people that TNO harmed in the past, shows shows how a change in nature can go horribly wrong (he wasn't nearly as psychopathic until TNO was finished with him, after all), as do the consequences of Dak'kon's doubts on how to interpret the words of Zerthimon (which resulted in Shrak'tlor getting razed). As for never finding out what Morte did, I think it actually is better for the story that it stays that way, along with TNO's real name. It's not unlike the contents of the briefcase in Pulp Fiction; the specifics are irrelevant to the main plot, and excluding them serves to indicate that the audience should be focusing on the themes being presented. That's not even getting into how everyone relates to the theme of torment and coping with said torment.

I never really got the impression that "regret" was meant to be the ultimate answer. Sure, that's what one incarnation of TNO had to say on the matter, but it's unclear if it is an answer that is universally true. Hell, I'd argue that regret did nothing to change TNO's nature in the first place. Sure, by the time we see him, he seems repentant, but his stated goal in attempting to become immortal was to avoid punishment for whatever he did; that and his subsequent attitude change seems a lot less like regret making someone turn over a new leaf and more akin to selfishness manifesting itself in a different way. Then again, by the time TNO is able to talk to that incarnation, the incarnation can't avoid punishment any longer, so it could be that his regret was genuine.

As for the ending, it's not that TNO wasn't able to change his nature. In my playthroughs, TNO was a genuinely nice person, a far cry from the incarnation who fucked up so badly that immortality was needed to begin to have time to make up for it. The problem is that no matter how much his nature has changed, the moment he screwed up the Planes decided that punishment in the Hells was warranted. In that sense, it was not unlike having committed a murder; you could have changed your nature to become a more peaceable person, but that won't stop a conviction from getting issued by a jury.

Also, where did you get the idea that TNO escaped death by merging with his mortality? By merging with his mortality, he got taken directly to the Hells as a petitioner. In Planescape terms, he is as dead as he is ever going to get, short of getting killed in the Blood War and merging with the Plane he is on.

I guess that I didn't understand the nature of death well enough. I did a little bit of googling and there seems to be some disagreement about whether TNO became a petitioner and about what is the fate of petitioners in general. It doesn't really feel like death to me. Didn't we already go there to talk to the pillars of skulls? So then Ravel's question isn't really connected to TNO's quest or his immortality. Why is that question even important? No matter what can change the nature of a man, it won't really change anything. I agree about TNO's real name, but I would have liked to know what Morte did. It could have been an interesting twist. Right now, we're left wondering. He says that he penned him in the dead-book, but when and why?

Wikipedia seems to be confused about the issue. On Morte's page it says that "Morte is tormented by the fact that prior to his death he lied to the Good Incarnation that Ravel could make him immortal and is thus responsible for The Nameless One's lamentable condition." I haven't found this anywhere in the game. On TNO's page it says that: "The Nameless One was once human. He sought the advice of a man named Morte, who ended up tricking him into committing the most terrible crime imaginable." I also haven't found this anywhere in the game.

I think it would've been interesting if Morte had betrayed you. I was waiting for a betrayal all game after reading the "Don't trust the skull" thing, but it never came. I hadn't thought about it, but that story was probably told to Yves by a previous TNO. So that would make sense.