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Stig79: No need to provide that link to the letter is it? Since it has been proven that Beamdog have the DISTRIBUTION rights.

Which was basically what I said I remembered that letter said anyway...
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plan99: Like I said, Hasbro has the final say (they own WotC) and as ValamirCleaver basically said, if enough people let them know they're voting with their wallets they may decide unbundling is in their best interests. Let them know, otherwise nothing will change.
They have the final say BEFORE a contract is signed. Once Beamdog got the rights to the games, they can do whatever they want when it comes to sales and the like. They can't add to the story or change the lore of the games, though.
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Stig79: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125217-Baldurs-Gate-Enhanced-Edition-Pulled-From-Stores Remember this little mess? Look who had to remove the game from sale. Beamdog. WOTC didn't pull it from any of the stores. It was Beamdog. Know why that is? Because Beamdog has the distribution rights....they can sell it any way they want.
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plan99: I didn't read the article, but I remember that. Sorry if it was in the article, but why would Beamdog pull their own product? As I remember, people on Steam were talking about it being a rights problem (besides being extremely buggy). How could they have a rights problem with themselves? Fans on Steam rejoiced when whatever rights problem was resolved and the EE returned, coming here also.
It was Atari being assholes. They had the rights to d&d at the time. Beamdog had the rights to the BG games, so Atari took legal actions. Beamdog had to pull their BG game from the shelves while it was ongoing. Which was why the BG2 EE got postponed as well.

Note that Beamdog had to pull their game from the shelves. Not WOTC.
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ValamirCleaver: Other than plan99, have you or any of the other complainers directly contacted Hasbro to communicate clearly & concisely in no uncertain terms that you will not be patronizing the company in any way, shape or form including not making any purchases related to IP in the long list that I culled from Hasbro's, WotC's & Avon Hill's websites and that will be communication this same information to everyone you know? Have you convinced anyone else to also do the same? Are you going to do anything else other than just passively-aggressively bitch, whine & moan on GOG's forums?
Yeah best to just blindly accept it when a shit company is pissing all over the legacy of some of the greatest rpgs ever made.

The alternative is to do what you do. Close your eyes and suck hard on whatever is placed into your mouth, and then swallow without a hint of critical thought. And then defend whoever shoved it in there in the first place because saying something would be "bitching".
Post edited April 04, 2017 by Stig79
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plan99: Like I said, Hasbro has the final say (they own WotC) and as ValamirCleaver basically said, if enough people let them know they're voting with their wallets they may decide unbundling is in their best interests. Let them know, otherwise nothing will change.
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Stig79: They have the final say BEFORE a contract is signed. Once Beamdog got the rights to the games, they can do whatever they want when it comes to sales and the like. They can't add to the story or change the lore of the games, though.
I don't think that's how it works.

Beamdog has the right to create and release its Enhanced Editions, but that doesn't mean it also controls the distribution of the original games. Hasbro still owns those.
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So in your opinion directly contacting Hasbro regarding this situation and convincing others to do the same is "to just blindly accept it", but just complaining about it on GOG's forums it not?

Support a logical argument; instead of relying on straw man red herring fallacies explain specifically; with direct, concrete examples; how is anything I have posted regarding this situation is being a "fanboy over it"? How is me suggesting those that are complaining about the situation engage in more constructive & direct action being a "fanboy over it"?
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Stig79: They have the final say BEFORE a contract is signed. Once Beamdog got the rights to the games, they can do whatever they want when it comes to sales and the like. They can't add to the story or change the lore of the games, though.
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archy2: I don't think that's how it works.

Beamdog has the right to create and release its Enhanced Editions, but that doesn't mean it also controls the distribution of the original games. Hasbro still owns those.
Nope. They also own the rights to distribute the original versions. They got the rights to those games, and everything they include. Which is why they were allowed to make modifications to the original games in the first place. Right now they own BG, IWD and Planescape Torment.

What? Did you think they could legally just remove the classics and bundle them with their own products, if someone else had the rights to them?
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ValamirCleaver: So in your opinion directly contacting Hasbro regarding this situation and convincing others to do the same is "to just blindly accept it", but just complaining about it on GOG's forums it not?

Support a logical argument; instead of relying on straw man red herring fallacies explain specifically; with direct, concrete examples; how is anything I have posted regarding this situation is being a "fanboy over it"? How is me suggesting those that are complaining about the situation engage in more constructive & direct action being a "fanboy over it"?
Presented you with plenty of evidence already. You just ignore it. Perhaps you should just re-read the last few pages in this thread?
Post edited April 04, 2017 by Stig79
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I see many examples of logical fallacies; a lot of unproven subjunctive, assumptions; but very little direct evidence.
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Stig79: Nope. They also own the rights to distribute the original versions. They got the rights to those games, and everything they include. [...] Right now they own BG, IWD and Planescape Torment.
[citation needed]

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Stig79: Which is why they were allowed to make modifications to the original games in the first place.
They don't need to own the original games in order to do that. They only need a contract with Hasbro which specifically allows them to release the Enhanced Editions while Hasbro retains all IP rights. And my guess is that this is indeed what they have.

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Stig79: What? Did you think they could legally just remove the classics and bundle them with their own products, if someone else had the rights to them?
Wait, this whole time you've argued that Beamdog must be solely responsible for the classic games being pulled from the GOG store because they allegedly own all the rights to those games.

And now when pressed for evidence that Beamdog holds such extensive rights, the only evidence you offer is that they allegedly pulled the classic games from the GOG store...

I believe that's called circular reasoning.

TL;DR: Based on common sense and the statement by the Beamdog developer that was linked earlier, I still think it is very likely that Hasbro has final say in these matters, and that no games would get pulled/bundled and no Black Isle logos removed if Hasbro didn't want that to happen.
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Stig79: Nope. They also own the rights to distribute the original versions. They got the rights to those games, and everything they include. [...] Right now they own BG, IWD and Planescape Torment.
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archy2: [citation needed]

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Stig79: Which is why they were allowed to make modifications to the original games in the first place.
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archy2: They don't need to own the original games in order to do that. They only need a contract with Hasbro which specifically allows them to release the Enhanced Editions while Hasbro retains all IP rights. And my guess is that this is indeed what they have.

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Stig79: What? Did you think they could legally just remove the classics and bundle them with their own products, if someone else had the rights to them?
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archy2: Wait, this whole time you've argued that Beamdog must be solely responsible for the classic games being pulled from the GOG store because they allegedly own all the rights to those games.

And now when pressed for evidence that Beamdog holds such extensive rights, the only evidence you offer is that they allegedly pulled the classic games from the GOG store...

I believe that's called circular reasoning.

TL;DR: Based on common sense and the statement by the Beamdog developer that was linked earlier, I still think it is very likely that Hasbro has final say in these matters, and that no games would get pulled/bundled and no Black Isle logos removed if Hasbro didn't want that to happen.
Not allegedly. They have the distribution rights to IWD, BG, and P:T (that also includes the vanilla games)

Why do you even need evidence of it? They are selling Baldur's Gate. It is obvious that they have the rights for it.

"We're excited to take our commitment and support to Baldur's Gate and GOG fans to the next level and humbled to work with such great partners. The Definitive Edition Bundle will give every Baldur's Gate fan what they're looking for" – concludes Cameron Tofer, Beamdog COO." Here you go. Straight from Beamdog themselves.

I am sure that one won't count as evidence, either, of course. Since pure logic seems to "not compute" so far anyway.

So here you have it, moron. Or do you believe that they can remove the classics from sale WITHOUT the legal rights to do it? It has been painfully obvious to most people.
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Stig79: So here you have it, moron. Or do you believe that they can remove the classics from sale WITHOUT the legal rights to do it? It has been painfully obvious to most people.
You know, your constant rude behavior ruins whatever you're trying to accomplish. I don't believe anyone else has been calling you names, only trying to have a reasonable discussion.

In any case, whatever your goal is and whatever you believe, if you don't at least try to contact Hasbro about this you're accomplishing nothing. Is it really so horrible to contact Hasbro that you have to argue about it? As others have said, arguing and complaining here will change nothing, so what's the point, what's your goal in doing this? People who like Beamdog aren't going to change their minds and people who don't have no need of your telling them to hate Beamdog.
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I've posted a topic on unbundling in this forum, just as I did in BG last year. https://www.gog.com/forum/planescape_torment/info_on_possibly_getting_the_classic_unbundled
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ValamirCleaver: I see many examples of logical fallacies; a lot of unproven subjunctive, assumptions; but very little direct evidence.
I'll reiterate myself, but in a more direct way.
Do you fucking want to fucking prove your point, or do you just want to argue?
Do you fucking have any fucking facts instead of fucking complaining?
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Stig79: So here you have it, moron. Or do you believe that they can remove the classics from sale WITHOUT the legal rights to do it? It has been painfully obvious to most people.
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plan99: You know, your constant rude behavior ruins whatever you're trying to accomplish. I don't believe anyone else has been calling you names, only trying to have a reasonable discussion.

In any case, whatever your goal is and whatever you believe, if you don't at least try to contact Hasbro about this you're accomplishing nothing. Is it really so horrible to contact Hasbro that you have to argue about it? As others have said, arguing and complaining here will change nothing, so what's the point, what's your goal in doing this? People who like Beamdog aren't going to change their minds and people who don't have no need of your telling them to hate Beamdog.
Didn't tell anyone to hate Beamdog. Stop putting words in my mouth, please.

What is the point of contacting Hasbro about this when Beamdog have the distribution rights? Beamdog are calling the shots when it comes to how it is being sold etc. Hence why Beamdog made the announcements about the bundling in the first place.

If you are eating at a restaurant, and find a spoiled bit of carrot on your plate, do you contact the farmer who sold the carrot to the restaurant and complain? Didn't think so.

I actually contacted Hasbro when the BG games got bundled. Didn't get a reply. Twice.

Did you get any reply from them?
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Stig79: Did you get any reply from them?
Sorry, but as I said, your insulting people doesn't help whatever your case is. Read some of the posts you seem to have skipped/ignored for more, I'm not going to repeat myself.

Yes, it's in the OP of my https://www.gog.com/forum/baldurs_gate_series/info_on_possibly_getting_the_classics_unbundled/page1 thread that I posted almost a year ago and that you commented in almost a year ago and more recently.

Did I stoop to insulting you?
I am critical of Beamdog for some of the things they have done ( I am looking at you, SoD) but seems to be that some people are taking the hatred of Beamdog to extremes. They seem obsessed by it.
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Muad.406: As the rumors that Beamdog are working on an enhanced edition for Torment is getting stronger i would recommend you buy the original game while you can before it is pulled from sale like Baldurs gate 1-2 and Icewind dale 1 was.
Great, someone start a Gog Gog store, I don't want these "EE" shit pieces, I want them as much as I want The Mona Lisa 2.0.
Here come the Purists.....