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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect builds for you.(768 posts)(768 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 29, 2019
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RareLight: Thanks for the help mate, really appreciate it! The build sounds fantastic, you definitely know your stuff~

When you talk about F1/Sorc(draconic)5/DD4/EK10 in the proper version, DD4 stands for what? I might play the class again someday on a harder difficulty so I would like to know.

Also, any kind of draconic bloodline or one in specific?

Again, you have my thanks. Now I can play EK without being afraid of screwing my points/skills. Also, the Lv 1 Fighter is smart since arcane armor training/mastery allows one to use better armor while addressing the arcane failure chance from wearing armor correct? That's awesome!
DD stands for dragon disciple. And color of dragon doesn't matter much in this case as it's not going to use offensive spells anyways. I usually prefer Acid dragons if only for the fact you usually don't need a massive acid resistance and most of that is a d6 or 2d6 ticks. And acid is the least resisted element in the game so your acid breath might come in handy one or two times. Corrosive touch is also a thing that might be used but not really. In the end it's mostly flavor for a weapon-based sorc. For dragonform sorc it's the whole other story.

Lvl1 fighter allows us to use mithral Full plate for some decent AC without a monk access, saves us a feat for martial weapons and gives us 1 free feat to use. It's a clear win in my book instead of suffering all game and losing a feat just to save one level. Arcane training indeed allows for mithral plate at 5% ASF which is decent enough and as we already picked human for 2 feats I decided it won't be too bad to grab it asap and forget about it. It's still easier to go through act 1 as a regular fighter due to the lack of mithral there, but I opted to give you the agency over it instead. You can grab Heavy armopr training at lvl1 and move arcane mastery to lvl3 if you want.

Forgot to mention you should turn on fighting defensively at lvl 5 permanently.
Post edited April 29, 2019 by InEffect
Posted April 30, 2019
If you were actually going to build the best mystic theurge you could build, what would you do? You mentioned Wizard7/Ecc3/Theurge10 in class evaluations, would you use that, or go for a pair with the same primary stat? What god/domains would you use? And would you do a generalist wizard, a specialized one, or maybe take advantage of the cleric spell selection and do a thassilonian specialist?
Posted April 30, 2019
Got it, thanks for taking the time to fully explain. I will go for the arcane mastery at once so that I can forget about it.
Posted April 30, 2019
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GoldenGilgamesh: If you were actually going to build the best mystic theurge you could build, what would you do? You mentioned Wizard7/Ecc3/Theurge10 in class evaluations, would you use that, or go for a pair with the same primary stat? What god/domains would you use? And would you do a generalist wizard, a specialized one, or maybe take advantage of the cleric spell selection and do a thassilonian specialist?
Human tassilonian sloth/Asmodeus ecc fire/trickery
conjuration focus x2, pb shot, precise shot, ray focus, dazzling, shatter, heighten, deceitful, persuasive, Skill focus: persuasion, Augment+Superior summoning. taken in that order

Fire cause we can mix animate dead with heightened scorching rays on cleric. Trickery as a secondary cause we can fill domain slots on 2-5 level with heighten invis and cover our bases that way. and it gives you acess to trickery and stealth that will allow you to make use of those skill-points.
Only thing of value you'd lose is mirror image, but I guess one can live with that.
Wizard slots (surprising nobody) will mostly be filled with heightened stinking clouds for the most part with occasional acid spray and pit spell for the lulz.
Summon feats are skipped to late levels just cause animate dead is OP. Level 8/9 summons might be handy, though. so that's the logic.

Dazzling is there to lower enemy saves and to make your rays actually hit. And it's something to do when you don't have sense vitals running.

With that +4profane int staff from the DLC your DC's will be somewhat competitive.

theurge is still pita to play though.
Post edited April 30, 2019 by InEffect
Posted April 30, 2019
Quite intereseted in the Freebooter archetype, more so because of the +4AB to the whole party with only 6 level investment (full BaB and 2 feats is not too shabby either). Saw your aldori free booter built around two weapon fighting and was wondering how you would build it around Two-handers, possibly going into Two-handed fighter instead?
I was thinking about a STR/CHA char (angelkin aasimar) going for a lot of party enabling (with freebooter stuff + intimidations) while keeping good damage throughout.

Would like to go something like : THF9/Freebooter6/Thug4/Scaled fist1, but tbh I am not sure if fitting thug 4 will be that smooth progression wise.

So yeah, was wondering what you thought about it.
Post edited April 30, 2019 by volklore
Posted April 30, 2019
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volklore: Quite intereseted in the Freebooter archetype, more so because of the +4AB to the whole party with only 6 level investment (full BaB and 2 feats is not too shabby either). Saw your aldori free booter built around two weapon fighting and was wondering how you would build it around Two-handers, possibly going into Two-handed fighter instead?
I was thinking about a STR/CHA char (angelkin aasimar) going for a lot of party enabling (with freebooter stuff + intimidations) while keeping good damage throughout.

Would like to go something like : THF9/Freebooter6/Thug4/Scaled fist1, but tbh I am not sure if fitting thug 4 will be that smooth progression wise.

So yeah, was wondering what you thought about it.
I'd go Motherless Vivisectionist 7/Freebooter6/Archaeologist 2/DD4/traditional Monk1 picked two-handed style and grabbed intimidating prowess and cleaving finish for the bonus feats. With the spread you get uncanny, +8 strength, bunch of sneak dice and bites, self-sustainable shield, Lead blades and mirror image and good enough AC from different sources. and 50-ish strength. Also cleaving finish, shatter and a bunch of AB. All that along with free bite trips from winter wolf cloak.
For a weapon greataxe works, I guess. Or a fauchard if there would be free slot for it to take mastery.

THF costs too much and provides too little. If he had fighter special feats I'd consider him for fighter tactics, but as is it's 0.5 str damage for a lot of levels. Even at 50 str it's just 12 damage for 7 levels.

And about my old freebooter build it's in need of rework for current meta the same as a lot of others, but I don't wanna waste time there till the last DLC hits as that can change the meta again.
Post edited April 30, 2019 by InEffect
Posted April 30, 2019
Hi,

Currently running a party with (among other things) 2 kineticists (MC included) and a STR/CON ranger shield basher NPC (Ironclad Ranger Build from Nerd Commando). I must admit, you can feel the violence in every hit that ranger is throwing. Even more so with the thundering claw scimatar equipped when it crit. (too bad the effect on the bear companion isn't working). And Ravena's Oath is just godsent.

The usual plan is, kineticists put down walls and then cloud/deadly earth. Everything that survive and make it to the party get mauled down by the bear and the ranger.

Downside is, when I get suprised attack and focused, or facing touch AC ennemies, that ranger can go down fast. That's why I have to rely on a DEX/INT SS/monk/duelist to "tank".

Anyway, that ranger build got me so pumped up that I'd like to begin a run with a MC improving on that shield bash concept. I'd still have at least one kineticist on the party, they're so much fun !
I want something that scream "Everything within X feets is my domain. If you cross it, you're dead".
I first thought of a melee monk / kineticist who would cast deadly earth or cloud on himself. Kinda like a consecrated ground. But there isn't really anyway for kineticists to negate their own AoE damage. Plus kineticist wouldn't really work with shield bash, as they need a free hand.
Then I thought blight druid, but it seems they're kinda meh.

My only remaining idea is a Sacred Huntsman(pet) / Monk / Thundercaller. But I have no idea if it's even viable stats-wise. Thundercaller sure seems like it would have enough additional feat to support a shield bash build. But would the BAB be enough ?!

Anyway, would love to read your take on this one.

Also, I have all the DLCs. Favorite race is dwarf, but that's not mandatory. I don't mind multiclassing at all. I don't want to use bugs like Crane wing working with a shield. Min/Max is very much welcome as long as I have a recipe to follow level per level :)
Posted April 30, 2019
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Elspyth: Hi,

Currently running a party with (among other things) 2 kineticists (MC included) and a STR/CON ranger shield basher NPC (Ironclad Ranger Build from Nerd Commando). I must admit, you can feel the violence in every hit that ranger is throwing. Even more so with the thundering claw scimatar equipped when it crit. (too bad the effect on the bear companion isn't working). And Ravena's Oath is just godsent.

The usual plan is, kineticists put down walls and then cloud/deadly earth. Everything that survive and make it to the party get mauled down by the bear and the ranger.

Downside is, when I get suprised attack and focused, or facing touch AC ennemies, that ranger can go down fast. That's why I have to rely on a DEX/INT SS/monk/duelist to "tank".

Anyway, that ranger build got me so pumped up that I'd like to begin a run with a MC improving on that shield bash concept. I'd still have at least one kineticist on the party, they're so much fun !
I want something that scream "Everything within X feets is my domain. If you cross it, you're dead".
I first thought of a melee monk / kineticist who would cast deadly earth or cloud on himself. Kinda like a consecrated ground. But there isn't really anyway for kineticists to negate their own AoE damage. Plus kineticist wouldn't really work with shield bash, as they need a free hand.
Then I thought blight druid, but it seems they're kinda meh.

My only remaining idea is a Sacred Huntsman(pet) / Monk / Thundercaller. But I have no idea if it's even viable stats-wise. Thundercaller sure seems like it would have enough additional feat to support a shield bash build. But would the BAB be enough ?!

Anyway, would love to read your take on this one.

Also, I have all the DLCs. Favorite race is dwarf, but that's not mandatory. I don't mind multiclassing at all. I don't want to use bugs like Crane wing working with a shield. Min/Max is very much welcome as long as I have a recipe to follow level per level :)
you contradict yourself a little here. You want monk there to abuse the bug of monk AC working with a shield, but don't want to abuse bugs. I am a bit at a loss.
Posted April 30, 2019
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Elspyth: ...
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InEffect: you contradict yourself a little here. You want monk there to abuse the bug of monk AC working with a shield, but don't want to abuse bugs. I am a bit at a loss.
Oops, that's my bad. I always remember monk bonus AC as "When unarmored and unencumbered" and forget about the last part about carrying a shield !
Guess that makes such a build even less viable without exploiting bugs ?!

Edit : Really, if at the end of the day, the only viable option is with using bugs, i'll take it. And I'll just hope they don't patch it before I finish the run.
Post edited April 30, 2019 by Elspyth
Posted April 30, 2019
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Elspyth: Oops, that's my bad. I always remember monk bonus AC as "When unarmored and unencumbered" and forget about the last part about carrying a shield !
Guess that makes such a build even less viable without exploiting bugs ?!
Nah it's pretty straightforward Vivisectionist 16/Archaeologist2/Fighter2 if you wanna go heavy armor. Far worse than monk2/vivisectionist12/Archaeologist2/DD4, but not so much it'd be unusable

or saint1/m1/v12/a2/dd4 but that one more geared towards trips and you won't have enough feats for that with a shield bash build.

to be fair if they patch it there is always respec mod

I can do either. You just have to decide.
Post edited April 30, 2019 by InEffect
Posted April 30, 2019
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InEffect: Nah it's pretty straightforward Vivisectionist 16/Archaeologist2/Fighter2 if you wanna go heavy armor. Far worse than monk2/vivisectionist12/Archaeologist2/DD4, but not so much it'd be unusable

or saint1/m1/v12/a2/dd4 but that one more geared towards trips and you won't have enough feats for that with a shield bash build.

to be fair if they patch it there is always respec mod

I can do either. You just have to decide.
I kinda like DD4, because it unlocks wings at lvl 15 if I remember correctly. So i'd say monk2/vivisectionist12/Archaeologist2/DD4.

Couple questions :
- Vivi 12 means no perma mutagen. Is it core to the build ? Playing on Normal, I rarely rest mid dungeon. So I tend to safeguard the mutagens for the boss, or the toughest fight.
- With just the multiclass division, I fail to see the concept of CC or Damage AoE that would fit the "Everything within X feets is my domain" that I was going for. I'm sure you know better than me, but that got me curious. Because even with Archeologist 2, you won't have any performance like fascinate.
Posted April 30, 2019
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Elspyth: I kinda like DD4, because it unlocks wings at lvl 15 if I remember correctly. So i'd say monk2/vivisectionist12/Archaeologist2/DD4.
you get wings much sooner than that from vivisectionist. And bloodlines don't work on character level. They work on class level.

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Elspyth: Couple questions :
- Vivi 12 means no perma mutagen. Is it core to the build ? Playing on Normal, I rarely rest mid dungeon. So I tend to safeguard the mutagens for the boss, or the toughest fight.
vivisectionist 12 means 2 hours of mutagen. It's longer than any map would last. and random encounters are not exactly the dangerous stuff.


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Elspyth: - With just the multiclass division, I fail to see the concept of CC or Damage AoE that would fit the "Everything within X feets is my domain" that I was going for. I'm sure you know better than me, but that got me curious. Because even with Archeologist 2, you won't have any performance like fascinate.
well you get a lot of AoO's and if someone casts legendary proportions on you you get some decent reach for opportunity attacks, but really where this one would mostly shine is at deleting enemies with sheer damage. Only stuff that would make it "your domain" is either tripping kineticist, stinking cloud or grand cognatogen grenadier. And dragon sorc with sirocco is somewhere up there.
Hard CC is where it's at for control, but as far as melee's go that one will be good enough.
Posted April 30, 2019
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InEffect: well you get a lot of AoO's and if someone casts legendary proportions on you you get some decent reach for opportunity attacks, but really where this one would mostly shine is at deleting enemies with sheer damage.
Sounds fun enough !
I already planned to pick a trip kineticist in the party, so it's not like I'm gonna lack in control.
Posted April 30, 2019
DW/SB/As broken as possible for Elspyth

Race: Tiefling(Motherless)

Alignment: Any

Stats:
Str: 19 > 24
Dex: 13
Con: 14
Int: 11
Wis: 16
Cha: 7

Final Build: Monk(Traditional) 1/Bard(Archaeologist 2/Vivisectionist 12/Magus: Sword Saint 1

Main skills: Mobility 3, Knowledge(Arcana) 5, Persuasion Max, Perception Max
Suggested secondary skills: Whatever. Athletics is not bad for spare points.

Detailed leveling breakdown:
Lvl 1: Sword Saint - Chosen Weapon: Falcata // Dazzling Display
Lvl 2: Monk - Crane Style
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Accomplished Sneak Attacker
Lvl 4: Bard
Lvl 5: Alchemist - Two-Weapon Fighting(Need +2 Dex item) // Feral Bite
Lvl 6: Alchemist
Lvl 7: Alchemist - Outflank // Combat Trick > Shield Bash
Lvl 8: Alchemist
Lvl 9: Alchemist - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting(+4Dex Item) // Feral Wings
Lvl 10: Alchemist
Lvl 11: Alchemist - Shatter Defenses // Combat Trick > Improved Critical: Falcata
Lvl 12: Alchemist
Lvl 13: Alchemist - Double Slice(+2 Item) // Crippling Strike
Lvl 14: Alchemist
Lvl 15: Alchemist - Shield Master // Greater Mutagen
Lvl 16: Bard - Opportunist
Lvl 17: Dragon Disciple - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting(+6 Item) // Any Acid Dragon
Lvl 18: Dragon Disciple - Blind Fight
Lvl 19: Dragon Disciple - Bashing Finish
Lvl 20: Dragon Disciple

Important Magus Spells: True Strike, Shield

Important Alchemist Spells: True Strike, Enlarge Person, Barkskin, Restoration(lesser), Delay Poison, Displacement, Haste, Heroism, Delay Poison(Communal), Greater Invisibility, Stoneskin, Restoration

Important Bard Spells: Remove Fear, Cure Light Wounds, Vanish, Unbreakable Heart, Glitterdust, Mirror Image, Heroism

Gear: Lion’s Claw(Varnhold DLC) any other falcata before that, LG monk robes, Light shield till Shield Master; Heavy Shield after(Ravena when you find it). AC bracers, +stat belt, +stat hat, Ring of circumstances(str, wis, dex, AC), Dreamer ring, Gyronna amulet*, Absolver Cloak, Opportunist’s Boots(ask for kelid weapon the moment you can from artisan).

Not terribly complicated, except abuses a few things in the game.
1. Items allow to qualify for feats. I was rather lenient with supposed item progression, so you shouldn’t have any problems there.
2. Monk AC works with the shield
3. Bites stack. We don’t use those for automatic trips this time around, but you do get some free attacks for even more damage.

Has dazzling and shatter, but realistically doesn’t want to use dazzling himself. Bring a dazzling user with you.

Needs Legendary proportions to reach 52 strength(with bokken elixir), so a full alchemist or arcane caster is advised.

75 melee AC, 72 Ranged AC, 44 touch AC in full gear. Unfair-viable levels of tankiness.
Good saves across the board (27/27/23) with just the mutagen running.

Skipped combat reflexes in favor of opportunist’s boots as we don’t really need more than 3 AoO’s per round at least not at the cost of a feat that we can’t afford. If you really want more you can swap Accomplished with it.

7d6 sneak attack.

That’s that. Not sure what else can be said. Pretty solid all-around tank with good damage and all that.

"Slightly" better than nerds I wager.
Post edited April 30, 2019 by InEffect
Posted May 01, 2019
InEffect,

Sorry for all the requests, you may see a trend here. Can you help me with a tank build that is viable in hard difficulty and uses a pet companion? I want to avoid anything Druid and for the pet companion to stay relevant for as long as possible, but I understand if we have to lose some levels somewhere.
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This is my favourite topic
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Pathfinder: KingmakerInEffect builds for you.(768 posts)(768 posts)
(768 posts)