There is no feat that'd give as much as mutagens. But sure if you are after the number of feats for whatever reason.
There is no point in taking vivi to 20. Negative 2 stats are purely cosmetic by the endgame. And trip vivi gets much more than V16 could.

Hey!
I've played the game before with the help of your guides and builds, thank you for them. I have tried to put together a build utilizing parts of both tripping Vivi and TWF Slayer. The idea was to utilize Spawn Slayer's dual wielding potency and CMB against bigger enemies with combat maneuver dpr. Also Pummeling Bully seemingly works with weapons. Could you please check it out and give feedback on it?

Motherless Tiefling
Lawful Good

Stats something like

STR: 17<22
DEX: 15
CON: 13
INT: 13
WIS: 16
CHA: 7

Vivisectionist 4/ Traditional Monk 1/ Spawn Slayer 10/ Sword Saint 1/ Thug 4

Level 1 Alchemist - Combat Expertise
Level 2 Alchemist - Feral Mutagen
Level 3 Monk - Combat Reflexes, Crane Style
Level 4 Slayer -
Level 5 Slayer - Outflank, Menacing: Power Attack
Level 6 Slayer -
Level 7 Slayer - Trip, Greater Trip
Level 8 Slayer -
Level 9 Slayer - Fury's Fall, Menacing: Shatter Defenses
Level 10 Slayer -
Level 11 Slayer - Pummeling Style, Pummeling Bully
Level 12 Slayer -
Level 13 Slayer - Crippling Strike, Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 14 Magus - Chosen Weapon: Two-Bladed Sword
Level 15 Rogue - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 16 Rogue - Opportunist
Level 17 Rogue - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 18 Rogue - Improved Critical: Two-Bladed Sword
Level 19 Alchemist - Double Slice
Level 20 Alchemist - Seize the Moment

Vivi for natural weapons, mutagen, some spells, sneaks

Monk for some AC (WIS to AC, Crane, Robes)

Spawn Slayer for full BAB, Studied Target, sneaks, Combat Style feats, Spawn for CMB for bigger enemies

Thug for Uncanny Dodge, Sneaks, additional Rogue Talent, Thug passives

Sword Saint cheats the exotic weapon along with its focus and gets an AC

Early game Natural weapons, early mid-game staves and other good weapons. Mid-lategame dual wielding and Twin Crystals. Passive trips coming from wolf cloak and two bites and Pummeling Bully full attacks. Will initiate after main tank.

How does all this look?

'tis ok. You miss out on mirror, but it's not the end of the world. One thing is you don't need improved crit since twin crystals are keen. And I'd probably drop rogue since it doesn't do much of anything there. I'd also probably go for 18/15/12/12/16/7 and started from monk. I also don't think saint level is warranted there. I'd probably go vivi 7/TM1/Slayer10/Archae2 same result, but you get feral wings for the tempo. You also don't need seize since it doesn't fully stack with opportunist. There is also an option to drop monk for that one and go irori deliverer 10/archae2/DD4/V4 or do M1/slayer10/archae2/DD4/V3

Thank you for feedback! I like your suggestion with 7 Vivi levels.

By the way what has been your personal favourite 2h build?

melee sorc, probably.

I updated the above build, could you please take another look if it's gotten better? Also, what kind of performance can I expect from this over the course of a playthrough? I want to know if this works fine or am I on a fool's errand compared to classic Trip Vivi. The goal is to have some of the tripping prowess while also being a powerful str dual wielder. I swapped the two-weapon fighting feats to bit earlier just because I wish to start dual wielding a few levels before. I tried the DD4, but it was too tight on feats, plus its bonuses would be compared to longer mutagen and 2d6 more sneak. Late game this should have the flexibility to use any strong twf weapon combo, be it Twin Crystals or Redeemer + Allslayer, for example, as the two level 19 feats are interchangeable. I'm not sure on how to fit in Feral Wings.

Traditional Monk 1/ Vivisectionist 7/ Spawn Slayer 10/ Archaeologist 2

Level 1 Monk - Combat Expertise, Crane Style
Level 2 Alchemist -
Level 3 Alchemist - Combat Reflexes, Feral Mutagen
Level 4 Alchemist -
Level 5 Slayer - Outflank
Level 6 Slayer - Menacring: Power Attack
Level 7 Slayer - Trip
Level 8 Slayer - Greater Trip
Level 9 Slayer - Fury's Fall
Level 10 Slayer - Menacing: Shatter Defenses
Level 11 Slayer - Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 12 Slayer - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 13 Slayer - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 14 Slayer - Crippling Strike
Level 15 Bard - Pummeling Style
Level 16 Bard- Opportunist
Level 17 Alchemist - Pummeling Bully
Level 18 Alchemist - Double Slice
Level 19 Alchemist - (This can be either Exotic: Two-Bladed Sword or Improved Critical for something plus any feat)
Level 20 Alchemist -

Thank you again

looks better. although I wouldn't take CE at level 1. It forces you to overcommit for int, which is costly for a motherless. Even with the current level spread you can swap reflexes and CE. I'd also swap 17 and 19 as I'm pretty sure WH bald hill is before pitax.

Hey InEffect,

very interesting posts, thank you. Looking for advice or ideas rather. I play the game on hard (first play-trough, but played pathfinder in the past, pnp, for quite some time), with certain house rules. That means, I always have the people I romance with me, and I am restricted to use exactly one mercenary - who has a 25 points build, however. I am a kineticist who covers dazzling perfectly. In the beginning I was a whorsy tiefling and romanced Octavia, Regongar and Kanerah, now only the tiefling(s), but that does mean I have 2 kineticists in my party. I'm before the varnhold chapter, doing the varnhold dlc now, my main party is lvl 11 with the exception of my main who is ahead. I am unimpressed, to say the least, of the tanks the game throws at you so my merc is a tank/dd all the time, this allows my to play a chaotic ranged caster-like mc who I prefer to play. The parties I use: Jubilost (best companion), me and Kaessi + Merc tank, Nok-Nok and an other melee (basically any two melee besides the tank), never had issues with healing in this game and Jubilost can do everything ... or, I am not sure if Regongar/Octavia has any storyline in the Varnhold act if I am no longer romancing them, but if they do, I need to build them in, both of them for a time at least, so Merc + Regongar + someone else in melee and Octavia and two kineticists in the backline, pretty bad considering Octavia is pretty bad herself. Might have to use one of my clerics in this setup, glavie-wielding Harrim or Fauchard-wielding cleric Jaethal, but I am kinda unimpressed with clerics, no matter what I do they aren't really good at anything but buffing (mind, I only have Jubilost with high UMD). Anyway, as for the mercs, I tried out several builds, allow myself to respec them from time to time: for early game I tried a monk+cleric and a paladin+monk with 2hander, the first is unimpressive while the second is also limited, not that many evil enemies so far, Fey are not evil. I also tried a dex aldori duelist variant who is decent, but not super impressive and currently a tripping vivisectionist. Trip vivi, alongside kineticist, are unique to the game so I like them, but with this lvl 11 tiefling girl I have some issues - if I run combat expertise, might not be needed all the time, and the enemies can't be shattered (lot of things are immune to fear) she has a hard time hitting, if she does tho that is impressive. Was wondering what tanky heavy hitting dps I should settle to, might stay with vivi (don't mind not using valerie standard build, her damage is unimpressive and dazzling is not needed in this party as kineticist provides that easily). I am aiming for lvl 20, but that also means, I guess, that my companions end up lvl 15ish. I need someone who covers lore checks as I prefer not to use the clerics, so someone who has at least 10 wisdom if not more. Was wondering if I should build a sword saint, bard or stay tripping vivi, maybe something completely different, ideas are welcome. Oh yeah, the character must cover lore checks, although not super necessary, worst case build in a cleric to be around, and all my mercs are tieflings, but that, in worst case, means a slightly worse aasimar or human.

*Sorry for wall of text, guess comes with my work.

if you are a kineticist I guess I'd go with
Val melee Sorc. Monk or armored. Either works.
Reggie or Jae melee Bard
Jubi
Since you are tight on space I'd go Cler8/Wiz3/Theurge10 Community+Whatever erastil cleric for a merc. At least the stats won't go to waste.

Thank you. Shouldn't I have at least 3 melee's though? At least until my kineticist can kill everything anyway.
Plus what can a cleric do what jubilost and use magic device can't (well, erastil community can do more, but is it worth it?)

two melees and some animate dead will more than suffice.
Having +13-15 to everything on tap is good. Plus you get to throw phantasmal webs everywhere, so that's nice too.

I see, thanks :)

Hi,

trying to gain some knowledge on this game, currently playing an Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer and have been building him as a debuffer with some serious mistakes along the way :p
One of the things I see here is that Conjuration school is awesome for control, and people mention that Chains of Light is a Will save based spell. On my game it says Reflex save. Was this changed in some patch or am I missing something?

Also, is it worth going for point-blank, precise shot, ray focus, etc. for a DC build?

Awesome guides btw, cheers.

think it's reflex, which isn't really functionally different. so just something that's not fort is good to have. in so far as arcane sorcs go - best bet is going conjuration+illusion, with taking illusion as a bloodline school. Bonus points for being a gnome. Reason being over-times spells force so many checks they don't really benefit from a DC increase. While save-or-die spells do. You also get phantasmal web from the illusion that is pretty decent and party-friendly. Another reason to do that would be the fact that illusion doesn't need AT to produce results. Alternative would be necro, but that does have so many items to boost itself I can't find a compelling reason to be an arcane or sage necro when you could be a sylvan and get the same results with a pet attached.

Well, I am about to beat the game, and yet...might do an other run, avoiding kineticists like hell. Game's good enough for more play-troughs. When I first posted I was, think, one level from deadly earth, then I got the message "congratulations, you broke the system". Spawn of Rovagug went down in 2-3 rounds, and the dragon even less, and fearfully ran away from him so he disengaged, waiting in a deadly earth to die. I have no doubts that the fey god would die to this mere fiendspawn (or am I at the powerlevel of an archdaemon?) in a few rounds. I have a hard time deciding on what to play however, normally I prefer casters over melee, although hybrid melee sounds cool, and absolutely avoid playing archers. I prefer playing chaotic characters though, and if tiefling is an option, I play tiefling, so no asimaar/human monk dips for me (and playing hard, therefore, not unfair). Since with my kineticist my pet kitten as the only companion would have worked, I tested out story companions, and Regongar with armor ended up quite good on the frontline on hard by the end. My ideas of potential mains:

casters: at sorc or arcane illusionist sorc (slightly weaker without being gnome) - problems, I found that there are too many immune things in the game for various damage or spells, requires dcs (kineticist: enough elements for any weakness, no saving throws, not broken at all) Even at sorc (Octavia) had issues damaging things with transmutation/evocation spells... and sirocco is poor man's deadly earth, similar to kineticist just weaker.

melee: (enlarged) abyssal scion (not sure about weapons, sadly not too many falchions), trip vivisectionist, dual-wielding str vivisectionist, some other scion. All are kinda melee with magic. I want to avoid monk dips, so all needs to be armored and will be weaker.

Ranged: eldritch scoundrel/trickster/ek - not sure if it can be played as anything but and archer with some ray spells, probably not fit for melee on hard, so would likely avoid.