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Hi, I am looking for help how to build my team. I just finished Baldur’s Gate 1 and I have a good amount of experience with NWN 1+2 like 10 years ago, so I am somewhat familiar with DnD 3.5, but have never touched anything Pathfinder.

I plan to play in Challenging difficulty, which seems to be what the devs wanted it to be like.
However, I read a lot that this game supposedly is very, very difficult and that it does require a lot off knowledge of the PnP mechanics and character building.

So my first question is: How much Min-Maxing is required? I have found a lot of Builds, especially from InEffect and Roahin, but with all those one or two level dips in monk, vivisectionist or Paladin they appear like overall gamery. They basically require you to go for a LG alignment for the Protectors Monk robe and/or Paladin level. Is this really necessary for a pleasant experience? On the other hand, I have found a guide calles 'Pathfinder: Kingmaker Character Building Basics (With 4 Examples)' on Youtube (cannot post links yet as a new user) which seems very basic to me and just describes what I would do for building a generic character In NWN. If it’s THAT easy, then why does everyone consider this game so difficult?

I’d prefer to play a character of LN, N or LE alignment and don’t to super-gamery stuff like one level dips. Will this be playable at all or cause too much suffering and resource management? Is for example, a gamery monk/vivi build on Valerie mandatory or can I just go straight Tower Shield specialist and maybe Stalwart Defender and have a good time? I do not want to needlessly suffer and gimp myself but also not trivialize the game on the other hand.

My second question is concerning Linzi and bards in general: All guides state that a bard is mandatory for the buffs. However, most builds only invest 4-7 levels in bard. Why? If you need her for the buffs, but you get more different kind of performances, the old ones increase in power and their duration is much longer when going full bard. So why does everyone make her an Eldritch Knight + X instead if the primary reason to take a bard is for the buffs?

My third queston is party composition.

I plan on going:
Valerie Tank
Harrim Off-Tank/DD/1/2 healer
Linzi full bard for control/buffs/Skill monkey
Ocatvia standard Arcane trickster build for nuking and skill monkeying
Jaethal 2nd Tow DD/1/2 healer

Is this viable?

Last question is the MC
I thought about a DEX Scion, a pure Defender of the True world or a Grenadier. Will I Lack something with the aformentioned Party? I fear that if I don’t get a full STR or pet main character I will suffer a lot from encumbrance with the companions above.
Post edited August 22, 2019 by ColinMacLaren
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ColinMacLaren: So my first question is: How much Min-Maxing is required? I have found a lot of Builds, especially from InEffect and Roahin, but with all those one or two level dips in monk, vivisectionist or Paladin they appear like overall gamery.
They are. Min maxing is not required if you use the difficulty wisely. For example:

Easy if you don't want to think about builds at all.
Normal if you have basic understanding of Pathfinder.
Challenging if you are willing and able to pay attention to the combat.
Hard if you're a good min/maxer and micro manager.
Unfair if you just don't want to win.

Remember, with all the difficulties you can tweak them to your own liking or ability.

I'm currently playing on challenging with a Magus main character, Valerie dipped 2 thug, Amiri Barbarian/Two Handed Fighter (makes sense), pure paladin/hospitaler for healing, defender of the true world druid and a sylvan sorcerer.
Post edited August 22, 2019 by Hickory
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Hickory: Unfair if you just don't want to win.
Lies. Unfair is just the only difficulty with any challenge at all. On hard and below you can just autoattack everything to death.

On the topic at hand. On challenging anything goes so long as you don't actively harm your characters.
Post edited August 22, 2019 by InEffect
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ColinMacLaren: Hi, I am looking for help how to build my team. I just finished Baldur’s Gate 1 and I have a good amount of experience with NWN 1+2 like 10 years ago, so I am somewhat familiar with DnD 3.5, but have never touched anything Pathfinder.
Actually, Baldur's Gate is based on second edition. rather than 3.5
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ColinMacLaren: So my first question is: How much Min-Maxing is required? I have found a lot of Builds, especially from InEffect and Roahin, but with all those one or two level dips in monk, vivisectionist or Paladin they appear like overall gamery. They basically require you to go for a LG alignment for the Protectors Monk robe and/or Paladin level. Is this really necessary for a pleasant experience?
No, it isn't. At least, on challenging.
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ColinMacLaren: On the other hand, I have found a guide calles 'Pathfinder: Kingmaker Character Building Basics (With 4 Examples)' on Youtube (cannot post links yet as a new user) which seems very basic to me and just describes what I would do for building a generic character In NWN. If it’s THAT easy, then why does everyone consider this game so difficult?
The game had its issues with balance, but they have been addressed in patches. Otherwise, it's just people who don't know what they are doing. Overall this game is not THAT difficult, though it's not as easy as NWN games, which I love, but they can basically be finished by right-clicking.
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ColinMacLaren: I’d prefer to play a character of LN, N or LE alignment and don’t to super-gamery stuff like one level dips. Will this be playable at all or cause too much suffering and resource management?
Yes, it will.
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ColinMacLaren: Is for example, a gamery monk/vivi build on Valerie mandatory or can I just go straight Tower Shield specialist and maybe Stalwart Defender and have a good time?
Sure, it's doable. Regarding monk tanks, there is a bug which makes Crane Style feats extremely useful. You may want to take Improved Unarmed Strike in order to take them instead of a Monk level.
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ColinMacLaren: I plan on going:
Valerie Tank
Harrim Off-Tank/DD/1/2 healer
Linzi full bard for control/buffs/Skill monkey
Ocatvia standard Arcane trickster build for nuking and skill monkeying
Jaethal 2nd Tow DD/1/2 healer

Is this viable?
Yes. Harrim is just bad (which is a shame, as I really like the concept). I would recommend to swap him for Tristian.
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ColinMacLaren: Last question is the MC
I thought about a DEX Scion, a pure Defender of the True world or a Grenadier. Will I Lack something with the aformentioned Party? I fear that if I don’t get a full STR or pet main character I will suffer a lot from encumbrance with the companions above.
Encumbrance can be a problem, at least early on, as the only high-strength character is Jaethal (Valerie is kinda in that category). Though that's mostly an issue early on. Anyway, buy a couple of bags of holding as soon as possible.
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Hickory: Unfair if you just don't want to win.
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InEffect: Lies. Unfair is just the only difficulty with any challenge at all. On hard and below you can just autoattack everything to death.

On the topic at hand. On challenging anything goes so long as you don't actively harm your characters.
Of course you'd say that, Mr. Power Gamer Min Maxer. Not everybody plays as you do, nor believes you.
Harrim makes an outstanding necromancer, monster tactician, or freebooter two-handed fighter. With his bonuses vs. giants and all the anti-giant equipment (and the new heavy plate in the twins house) he's an amazing tank for two large dungeons filled with giant-sized creatures. One thing he's not going to be is much of a healer, although as a necromancer he's passable, so if you want one of those play a hospitaler main or bring Tristan along.
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InEffect: Lies. Unfair is just the only difficulty with any challenge at all. On hard and below you can just autoattack everything to death.

On the topic at hand. On challenging anything goes so long as you don't actively harm your characters.
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Hickory: Of course you'd say that, Mr. Power Gamer Min Maxer. Not everybody plays as you do, nor believes you.
Dorks are gonna dork. Appreciate him for his expertise, ignore his autism.
Post edited August 22, 2019 by Bezhukov
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Hickory: Of course you'd say that, Mr. Power Gamer Min Maxer. Not everybody plays as you do, nor believes you.
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Bezhukov: Dorks are gonna dork. Appreciate him for his expertise, ignore his autism.
I do appreciate his expertise... in *his* style. His egotism? Not so much.
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Hickory: I do appreciate his expertise... in *his* style. His egotism? Not so much.
that's rich. coming from you.
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Hickory: I do appreciate his expertise... in *his* style. His egotism? Not so much.
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InEffect: that's rich. coming from you.
Aah, poor InEffect has had his ego hurt again!
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Hickory: Aah, poor InEffect has had his ego hurt again!
nah, that can only be done by someone who I can respect.
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Bezhukov: Dorks are gonna dork. Appreciate him for his expertise, ignore his autism.
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Hickory: I do appreciate his expertise... in *his* style. His egotism? Not so much.
Was glad to see Steam reistated him. He's been making some good comments over there.
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Hickory: Aah, poor InEffect has had his ego hurt again!
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InEffect: nah, that can only be done by someone who I can respect.
Strange logic, dude. Yeah, you're hurt.
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Hickory: I do appreciate his expertise... in *his* style. His egotism? Not so much.
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Bezhukov: Was glad to see Steam reistated him. He's been making some good comments over there.
Because now he has to behave.
Post edited August 23, 2019 by Hickory
low rated
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Hickory: Because now he has to behave.
No. "Behaving" for those backwards devs means subscribing to their regressive political agenda. They can suck it. I just won't do anything for this game instead.
Post edited August 23, 2019 by InEffect
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Hickory: Because now he has to behave.
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InEffect: No. "Behaving" for those backwards devs means subscribing to their regressive political agenda. They can suck it. I just won't do anything for this game instead.
*Smooooooch!*
I would like to tell you guys how amusing this all is, but sadly I can't.