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PeterScott: If you're Nosfertatu, you can't show your face in public, can't do seductions quests, if you are Ventrue, you can't survive in areas with only rats to feed on, Malkavians have different insane dialogue, etc...
Yet at no points of game you get the feeling "gosh I wish "other clan" was here with me. For any class your tools are adequate. In nwn try playing SotU as a melee class without companion or rogue level
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PeterScott: If you're Nosfertatu, you can't show your face in public, can't do seductions quests, if you are Ventrue, you can't survive in areas with only rats to feed on, Malkavians have different insane dialogue, etc...
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Valkinaz: Yet at no points of game you get the feeling "gosh I wish "other clan" was here with me. For any class your tools are adequate. In nwn try playing SotU as a melee class without companion or rogue level
Nonsense. Where do you need a rogue in SoU? It not restrictive as you claim.

As said multiple times:

You can take a rouge level.
You can open locks by bashing them.
You can open locks as a cross class skill + items.
You can open locks via magic.

You have 4 alternative to taking a Rogue with you. How many avenues do you think you need?

In fact this is a hallmark of NWN. Most things have multiple avenues to do everything to accommodate just about any set of class choices.

OTOH you will be just skipping quests as a Nosferatu, and avoiding people.
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PeterScott: You can take a rouge level.
You can open locks by bashing them.
You can open locks as a cross class skill + items.
You can open locks via magic.
1)And waste class slot which I might not want
2)and loose it's content
3)still won't help against traps
4)some locks can only be open by rogue

Where I need rogue in SoU? for example in flying city crypt where whole floor is covered in traps

You seems to not understand what party mechanics and what just gameplay difference. Party mechanics FORCE you to take someone else with you to cover up your weaknesses. VtMB just has differently played classes, but during game you feel yourself 100% capable to do everything. Also MoTB give you enough skills for every class to create well round skill full character. Nwn clearly separate classes that should fight with skill monkey classes
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PeterScott: You can take a rouge level.
You can open locks by bashing them.
You can open locks as a cross class skill + items.
You can open locks via magic.
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Valkinaz: 1)And waste class slot which I might not want
2)and loose it's content
3)still won't help against traps
4)some locks can only be open by rogue

Where I need rogue in SoU? for example in flying city crypt where whole floor is covered in traps
1) So three classes but working hard to have no rogue skills or magic?
2) Rarely, it has to be specifically coded for and it usually only destroys cheap items.
3) There are Find trap items that disable all traps in a wide radius.
4) Where? This would have to be specifically coded by module author and is not a feature of NWN. The flexibility of the engine that allows some community member to restrict a door to a specific class really doesn't make your case. I doubt there is such a door in any of the original campaigns.

Traps on the SoU floor have paths around them from what I recall and they aren't that deadly. I walked over a few. Not only that but I checked my Save game and I had a "Lens of detection", that casts "Find Traps", which was provided in the module, and is actually better than a rogue in that situation. because it knocks out a large area of traps.

So No, rogue not needed, and not available later as Deekin is a Bard.
. Party mechanics FORCE you to take someone else with you to cover up your weaknesses.
Again, you are describing some other game, not NWN1.

NWN is specifically designed to have multiple paths for all classes to complete objectives.

Precisely because you can't count on any specific class being present.

NWN is the opposite of what you keep trying to assign to it.
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PeterScott: NWN is specifically designed to have multiple paths for all classes to complete objectives.

Precisely because you can't count on any specific class being present.
And some people think that's a flaw of the game, and something they'd like to see corrected. Or at the very least, something they'd like modders and module creators to be able to correct as a result of Beamdog de-hardcoding a few things. And don't try "Just play another game" on me again, because I've already explained why that's not applicable here.

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PeterScott: NWN is the opposite of what you keep trying to assign to it.
NWN is D&D, and D&D is the opposite of what you keep trying to assign to it.

Honestly, I think this is all anyone needs to know here:
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PeterScott: I have a philosophical objection to trying to make NWN into something it isn't. NWN 1 is not a party based RPG.
You've outright admitted that your objection to FPC implementation is based on being ideologically opposed to NWN1 ever supporting party-based gameplay, even as an option. We don't want to take anything away from you, and we're not opposed to you being able to play the way you like, but you're damn sure opposed to us being able to play the way we like.
Post edited December 29, 2017 by Praetorian815
If I see "Rouge" one more time in a Nwn-related thread, I shall go mad.
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Praetorian815: And some people think that's a flaw of the game, and something they'd like to see corrected. Or at the very least, something they'd like modders and module creators to be able to correct as a result of Beamdog de-hardcoding a few things. And don't try "Just play another game" on me again, because I've already explained why that's not applicable here.
Then they want a different game, because this is a fundamental property of NWN1, and hence the argument to play NWN2 is valid alternative if you want that kind of Party focused game.
NWN2 directly addresses the desire for Party focused NWN that some wanted. Even better because full parties are actually provided since it was a day 1 design. Grafting something half assed onto NWN still won't make it as good a party based game as NWN2 is, because in many fundamental ways NWN1 just isn't that kind of game.

As I noted for SOU(and parts of HotU), Deekin is the only Available Henchman for large part of the game, and he is NOT a Rogue.

You can't claim the game is intended to be party based game, because it forces you to bring along a Rogue, when it doesn't even have a Rogue available to bring along.

Deekin is really more comic relief than strategic combat asset, and he is the best follower in any of the NWN campaigns. He isn't there for combat and control, he is there for entertainment, while the Hero does the heavy lifting in this Hero focused game.

NWN is D&D, and D&D is the opposite of what you keep trying to assign to it.
The D&D ruleset was from a PnP ruleset used for party based play where everyone controlled there individual characters. NWN implements that party mechanic in multiplayer with real people and it is great where available.

But the way NWN is implemented as computer game for it's single player option, is Hero focused, not even providing a party to bring along. It is Hero and follower(for entertainment value, not combat value).

The Followers aren't even provided to address your missing elements. NWN the single player computer game is completely a Hero focused game, not a Party focused game.

Honestly, I think this is all anyone needs to know here:
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PeterScott: I have a philosophical objection to trying to make NWN into something it isn't. NWN 1 is not a party based RPG.
You've outright admitted that your objection to FPC implementation is based on being ideologically opposed to NWN1 ever supporting party-based gameplay, even as an option. We don't want to take anything away from you, and we're not opposed to you being able to play the way you like, but you're damn sure opposed to us being able to play the way we like.
I have a philosophical opposition in trying to change the fundamental core of any old game into something that was never intended, largely because it will tend to make a mess of a lot of things, and change a classic game so much that the original classic no longer exists.

I also mentioned practical opposition, because doing this right is a near impossibility, and Beamdog themselves have no intention of doing so likely for similar practical reasons.

You are just arguing vociferously in favor of something that is NEVER going to happen, and really isn't a good idea.
Post edited December 29, 2017 by PeterScott
FPC is now added to the Trello board:

https://trello.com/b/Lb79bbgy/neverwinter-nights-input