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I've been thinking about whether I should give this franchise a try, and while I can get past the old graphics, I have my doubts about the plot elements and the general gameplay feel of the series.

So I was planning to start from MM3, work my way up and stop at MMVIII. Will I miss out on a lot of the story if I just read it off wikipedia or something?

I would also like to know how the plot feels on MM3 and so forth. Are the quests at least, interesting? (Unlike the godawful fetch-quests that plague most RPGs today)
Post edited August 28, 2012 by Zurin Arctus
What's great about M&M compared to other CRPGs is exploring an open world, character development and always finding new loot. The games also have a certain quirky charm due to the artwork and the often goofy humour.

Except for MM1 and 2, combat is rather simple and not very tactical. But carpet bombing enemies with Star Burst and Meteor Shower, preferably while the party is flying, is fun in the later games.

Quests vary from fetch quests to more advanced quests, and some game(s) have quests for individual characters. Most of the quests in 1-5 are fetch or go and kill quests, though.

The games have great gameplay IMO, and has an interesting, although not very consistent, overall plot. You won't miss much plot wise by starting with MM3. The wiki should provide enough background.

Ultimately the M&M games are not about plot or story, but about enjoying exploring open worlds and improving the stats, skills and equipment of your characters. There aren't any romances, or cinematic cutscenes in the M&M games, which to me is a good thing.
Post edited August 28, 2012 by PetrusOctavianus
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PetrusOctavianus: What's great about M&M compared to other CRPGs is exploring an open world, character development and always finding new loot. The games also have a certain quirky charm due to the artwork and the often goofy humour.

Except for MM1 and 2, combat is rather simple and not very tactical. But carpet bombing enemies with Star Burst and Meteor Shower, preferably while the party is flying, is fun in the later games.

Quests vary from fetch quests to more advanced quests, and some game(s) have quests for individual characters. Most of the quests in 1-5 are fetch or go and kill quests, though.

The games have great gameplay IMO, and has an interesting, although not very consistent, overall plot. You won't miss much plot wise by starting with MM3. The wiki should provide enough background.

Ultimately the M&M games are not about plot or story, but about enjoying exploring open worlds and improving the stats, skills and equipment of your characters. There aren't any romances, or cinematic cutscenes in the M&M games, which to me is a good thing.
Thanks for the detailed explanation!

I'd just like to get something cleared up though.
Are these fetch quests from MM3~5 at least decent or varied somehow?
Post edited August 29, 2012 by Zurin Arctus
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Zurin Arctus: I'd just like to get something cleared up though.
Are these fetch quests from MM3~5 at least decent or varied somehow?
I haven't played MM3, only MM4 and MM5, but in those, it's not so much that the quests are varied but that the locations are varied. There are all manner of caves, dungeons, towers, magical cloud areas, and even hostile towns to explore, and these places all feel very distinct. Most are filled with all manner of devious traps and tons of puzzles. You'll often find mysterious fountains or bubbling cauldrons to drink from, which may have good or bad effects on your party members, or places where you have to carefully maneuver using teleport spells, or secret treasure caches, or other cool stuff.

So while many of the quests themselves simply ask you to go find an item, going and getting it is going to be a lot of fun each time because you get to go someplace new. The open world really is fantastic and wonderfully varied. Also, many quests are pretty vague, not always saying where to look for things, so you'll have to try and figure them out yourself. But GOG include the cluebook with the extra features if you are stuck (careful, it has full answers for everything!).
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Zurin Arctus: Are these fetch quests from MM3~5 at least decent or varied somehow?
Actually quests in MM3 are more varied than I first recalled. Some require you to be at the right spot at the right day (days go really fast in the game) in the year. There's one chained quests where you first have to speak to an NPC, then find the next NPC to get a new clue and so on.
There are also some number puzzles, and you need to find passwords for some areas (make sure you write down or make screen caps of every bit of text).
Fetch quests usually involve collecting items for the three lords of the main castles. You aren't told where these items are, but will stumble upon them when exploring dungeons. The castle lords will instead ask you to fetch as many items of a particular kind as you can, in exchange for XP.

I haven't played MM5 yet, and I don't remember much from MM4, but quests in those games should be in the same vein.

But there aren't many quests per se, where you are specifically tasked by a lord with doing some great deed. The game is more about puzzle solving and aquiring items and passwords to gain access to later areas.

MM1 and 2 actually had better fetch quests than MM3 IMO, where the castle lords sent you to fetch both monster trophies and items. For the last quest in both the item and monster quest chain you were given specifics (go the dungen X and kill/fetch so and so), while the first three or so quests were random.
Also, in MM2 there were individual quests for each character class, usually to kill some high level unique NPC/monster in single combat.
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Waltorious: it's not so much that the quests are varied but that the locations are varied.
Yup, that sums it up very well.
Post edited August 29, 2012 by PetrusOctavianus
I think the single word summing up the series would be "fun". It's not about realism or plot, it's about having fun. The games themseves don't certainly take themselves too seriously. Just name your characters after Monty Python jokes and throw any expectations of serious drama out of the window.

I actually think Xeen just might have the best RPG design I've ever seen. It keeps pushing reward and challenge in just the right amounts to keep you coming back. All the boring stuff (like travel) has been minimized. You are constantly given access to new areas to explore and you always have things to do. It doesn't feel "streamlined" and it has both depth and challenge without feeling bogged down or discouraging. Despite the seemingly cliché world, it's pretty oddball and silly. Addictive, fun stuff.
You know, I'm not so sure. Let's see... The plot is awful and trite, quests are a boring fetch/kill affair, the pacing can easily get broken if you visit certain places too early (and even without that), voice acting grates on your ears, dungeons are very similar to each other, and there is little variation beyond the routine established early (hack & slash, clear dungeons, level up, get loot, sell equipment, repeat).

But there's still something that makes it rather fun. Especially in MM4&5 – vibrant hand-drawn animations, interesting loot, the level-up prize is always near, and there's the thrill of exploring new lands. I can't really explain it; for all its shortcomings, the game is incredibly addictive. Seems like it hits just the right note.
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RaggieRags: I think the single word summing up the series would be "fun". It's not about realism or plot, it's about having fun. The games themseves don't certainly take themselves too seriously. Just name your characters after Monty Python jokes and throw any expectations of serious drama out of the window.

I actually think Xeen just might have the best RPG design I've ever seen. It keeps pushing reward and challenge in just the right amounts to keep you coming back. All the boring stuff (like travel) has been minimized. You are constantly given access to new areas to explore and you always have things to do. It doesn't feel "streamlined" and it has both depth and challenge without feeling bogged down or discouraging. Despite the seemingly cliché world, it's pretty oddball and silly. Addictive, fun stuff.
I gotta say, I totally agree with RaggieRags here. My personal favorites of the whole series are the XEEN games (4 & 5), but I've played all except 8 & 9 and love them all. I even like the goofy story. I remember the first time I finished the original story arc (1-5) and saw the end cinematic. It was a wonderful moment, and not the least bit disappointing. It really felt like I had participated in an epic battle of good vs. evil.

No, the story isn't anywhere near on par with Planescape: Torment or Baldur's Gate, but it's got its own charm.

The second story arc (6-8) is enhanced quite a bit if you play the Heroes games, but it plays alright on its own as well.
It's hit the right notes, as some poster mentioned. Specially 6 and 7. And run 8 for a few minutes, and meh. I don't know why. I really like the Swords of Xeen, 6 and 7. And I will pay it to kill time, get some rest, etc.

Its like its my personal Angry Bird.
I don't know why I like M&M World of Xeen (IV & V) so much. The combat feels very simple and either you win, you lose, or almost all of your party is dead. The voice acting is godawful. The story and plot make no sense and have some extremely weird sci-fi element to it. The world is tiny once you actually look at a map. And yet I am having fun. I can't explain it.
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Overrwatcher: I can't explain it.
I think the explanation you're looking for is "level design". That's what really impressed me about the game. It's not the size of the world, it's how interesting each part of the world is. Dungeons have great themes in their design and a lot of puzzles that give each its own feel, and there's tons of stuff crammed into the outdoor areas too. Combat is simple but enemies are varied and colorful to keep things from getting stale.

I've actually been really impressed with the level design in this series going all the way back to the first game, where locations were interesting and distinct despite having almost no graphics at all; it was all by virtue of their layout and their environmental hazards. Oh, and if you start from the first game, the plot makes more sense... the first five games have a loose story arc. It's not needed to enjoy any of them in isolation, but it does tie the games together a bit if you play through from the beginning.
I don't know about Over Watcher, but for me its not level design, but gameplay & reward system design. There is already an article about how game designer make us addicted to games. Just like cooking, you could get it too much, too little, and just right. For me, world of xeen, mm6 and mm7 is fun. although mm7 is less due to potion mixing thingy (so I ended up loading, teleporting, visiting shopping to see if they have some potion available).

And limited skill level.
One thing I noticed is that it lets you go wherever you want and lets you learn from your mistakes. For example, I used some spells to hop over a mountain range into a volcanic wasteland. The lava monsters killed my party instantly, and I learned it's a bad idea going there.
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Overrwatcher: One thing I noticed is that it lets you go wherever you want and lets you learn from your mistakes. For example, I used some spells to hop over a mountain range into a volcanic wasteland. The lava monsters killed my party instantly, and I learned it's a bad idea going there.
Yup! I love that about the M&M games!

"Hey... I wonder if I can get over there? SWEET, I ca.... oh... crud." :^)
Besides all of the above,..I like games where you are on ground level look. Not from in the air like the D&D and Ultima games. I do own a lot of the D&D's, but I prefer the look of M&M's, and similar games.