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Artki: > Might hero will have 200 spell points, ...

When I see these kinds of analysis they always seem to assume high level heroes with large armies. Like you would see on large maps after many turns.

What about small maps? What if the heroes fought in the 2nd week?
I assumed the heroes were high level because we are talking about the best 8 secondary skills a hero can have and that means the hero is high level. I also responded to a SkeleTony's post, in which he said: "I seldom find Might Heroes to be really any better than Magic heroes. It is quite easy to level up attack and defense to ridiculous levels even for Magic heroes." Ridiculous levels to me are 20 or more.
Take in account that even that I said the Might hero will have 200 spell points (from 20 Knowledge), his real Knowledge is something between 10 and 15, the difference coming from: Visiting map special buildings (Gardens of Revelations, School of Magics and so on), artifacts, visiting a Tower town.

In the first weeks Magic Heroes with specialities like Chain Lightining and Meteor Shower have the upper hand. The Magic heroes are very effective in the beginning of the game, and in time they are less and less competitive.
Post edited May 13, 2013 by GabiMoro
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SkeleTony:
I used the 30 Archangels vs 30 Archangels because I wanted to illustrate the high damage bonus that a Might hero has without having the creatures’ skills affecting the results. I could make an Archangels vs Ghost Dragons, but then everybody would have said that off course AA will crush the Ghost Dragons.
A good comparison would be between armies of the same type, Undead vs Undead in your case. A custom multiplayer map, with the 2 heroes mentioned above, and the same armies, played by 2 human players would be even better.

A hero with 20 20 35 25 skills is better than one with 20 20 30 30, but Thant is a Necromancer and they have the same chance to level up Power Spell and Knowledge, so a 10 points difference between them is perhaps a litttle too much. Anyway, in this case he would have only 500 magic points, not 600-1300 as you said.

Regarding the Armor of the Damned, it would be fair that both heroes had this particular set. Or, if you say it’s easy to obtain this, than I hope you also agree that Recanter’s Cloak (prevents casting of level 3 and higher spells in combat) or Orb of Inhibition (no spells allowed) are even easier to obtain. Case closed, Might makes Right.
Nah.
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bevinator: The only spells I really HATE getting are Disguise, and the Boat spells on maps with no water.
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PetrusOctavianus: What about Hypnotize? Most useless HoMM spell, IMO, since whenever I'm tempted to use it it won't affect anyone.
Hypnotize is theoretically useful against "glass cannon" units like Marksmen that don't have a lot of health, but I've never really been successful with it either. I've never really been successful using Frenzy, either. But at least they function. Disguise is completely broken and simply doesn't work EVER.
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SkeleTony:
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GabiMoro: I used the 30 Archangels vs 30 Archangels because I wanted to illustrate the high damage bonus that a Might hero has without having the creatures’ skills affecting the results. I could make an Archangels vs Ghost Dragons, but then everybody would have said that off course AA will crush the Ghost Dragons.
A good comparison would be between armies of the same type, Undead vs Undead in your case. A custom multiplayer map, with the 2 heroes mentioned above, and the same armies, played by 2 human players would be even better.
Fair enough.
A hero with 20 20 35 25 skills is better than one with 20 20 30 30, but Thant is a Necromancer and they have the same chance to level up Power Spell and Knowledge, so a 10 points difference between them is perhaps a litttle too much. Anyway, in this case he would have only 500 magic points, not 600-1300 as you said.
I was just throwing out the average (without calculating based on any actual numbers) I get when I play. Usually Thant ends up with 700- 1,000 when I play (by end game) but on one occasion I had over 1400 mana... so I thought that 600-1300 sounded fair. But now I think I was wrong to state that as I did and concede your point.
Regarding the Armor of the Damned, it would be fair that both heroes had this particular set. Or, if you say it’s easy to obtain this, than I hope you also agree that Recanter’s Cloak (prevents casting of level 3 and higher spells in combat) or Orb of Inhibition (no spells allowed) are even easier to obtain. Case closed, Might makes Right.
I concede this point as well. I still have much more fun playing magic heroes (Necromancers in particular) even if mathematically I am wrong. I have played so many games that turned out to be a long, boring churn because my Might hero did not get Wisdom, earth magic, air magic, or Dimension Door/Fly. In fact at least half the games I play with Might heroes turn out this way
You seem to be operating under a big Flaw. Just because you have Tactics and can arrange your troops does NOT allow you to cast a spell during that time. You still have to wait for normal combat before you can cast a spell.
I stand corrected.
The magic hero doesn't mind if the might hero spends all his points lifting curses off his troops. He'd love for him to spend his mana. points. And if the might hero does not cure his blinded stacks every turn, soon the magic hero will have an overwhelming advantage.
Cure and Dispel are dirt cheap spells, Might hero would love for Magic hero to waste their only spell per round on spells that can be easily reverted and which don't benefit from the Magic hero's high Spell Power. Until your Magic hero get his overwhelming advantage, we're still going to play for several dozen rounds by my Might hero's rules.
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SkeleTony: ......I still have much more fun playing magic heroes (Necromancers in particular) even if mathematically I am wrong. I have played so many games that turned out to be a long, boring churn because my Might hero did not get Wisdom, earth magic, air magic, or Dimension Door/Fly. In fact at least half the games I play with Might heroes turn out this way
I'm not saying Magic heroes are crap, they are very good especially on the first weeks or even months (small and medium maps). I'm just saying that, as an ultimate killing machine (a high level hero that has all 8 secondary skills), a Might hero is better than a Magic hero, because I like more Attack and Defense and the seconday skills he gets. It's my opinion, and you are not the only one who disagrees with me.

About a Might hero getting Wisdom and the Magic school skills, I already said on the first page, but I'll mention it again, because I think it's important:

1. Every hero will be offered a chance to learn Wisdom when he advance to level 6 or sooner, and at every 6-th level after that or sooner. In other words, a might hero, no matter how low chances has to learn Wisdom, will learn it unless you keep rejecting this skill.

2. Every hero will be offered a chance to learn a Magic school skill (Earth, Air, Fire or Water magic) when he advance to level 4 or sooner, and at every 4-th level after that or sooner. Chances are that the Magic school skill offered will not be the one you want, but a Might hero can have 2 Magics as secondary skills. Some Might Heroes have high chances to learn Earth, some have high chances for Fire. For Earth and Air a Barbarian hero is probably the best choice.

You can test it by creating/editing a map using the map editor and putting a Pandora box that gives about 150.000 experience next to your starting hero.
Post edited May 15, 2013 by GabiMoro
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GabiMoro: I'm not saying Magic heroes are crap, they are very good especially on the first weeks or even months (small and medium maps). I'm just saying that, as an ultimate killing machine (a high level hero that has all 8 secondary skills), a Might hero is better than a Magic hero, because I like more Attack and Defense and the seconday skills he gets. It's my opinion, and you are not the only one who disagrees with me.

About a Might hero getting Wisdom and the Magic school skills, I already said on the first page, but I'll mention it again, because I think it's important:

1. Every hero will be offered a chance to learn Wisdom when he advance to level 6 or sooner, and at every 6-th level after that or sooner. In other words, a might hero, no matter how low chances has to learn Wisdom, will learn it unless you keep rejecting this skill.

2. Every hero will be offered a chance to learn a Magic school skill (Earth, Air, Fire or Water magic) when he advance to level 4 or sooner, and at every 4-th level after that or sooner. Chances are that the Magic school skill offered will not be the one you want, but a Might hero can have 2 Magics as secondary skills. Some Might Heroes have high chances to lear Earth, some have high chances for Fire. For Earth and Air a Barbarian hero is probably the best choice.
Wow you know I have played this game for years and did not know those 2 facts so thank you VERY much.

Also I would like to mention that I agree that Might Heroes at Higher levels can usually outperform Magic Heroes at the same level. HOWEVER I am not sure which one would grow quicker. Therefore If the Magic Hero was actually higher in levels sooner then it would stand to reason that there Might secondary and even Atk/Def stats may be on par or only slightly lower. Not to mention that Magic Heroes would have been able to preserve more of their army throughout.

So to sum up I AGREE that with equal level and army Might Heroes have a slight edge. However that is not to say that they would have as easy a time getting to that level as a Magic Hero therefore it would not really be a fair competition to make them equal in levels.

Perhaps people can agree with me there and the dispute end because really unless we start choosing specific Heroes, Map sizes, skills, spells and armies then it's simply an impossible argument to win because you can never be right even 75% of the time really as if any of these 5 factors (may be others I missed) changed then so would the outcome really.

A prime example Skele Tony might like is say an XL map, Isra (Necromancy spec Might Hero), your prime low level spells like slow/haste and ofc Animate Death with early access to Wisdom/Earth Magic would soon create an almost unstoppable Juggernaut.
Post edited May 15, 2013 by EvilLoynis
Oh yeah does anyone else find it odd that "Prayer" spell can seriously pump dead guys when "Bless" cannot?

This is where and how my chosen name came about. I managed to get a very sweet undead army and then got like a tome of water and Expert Water Magic. Instant super dead army hahahahaha.

Up to then one of my Favorite heroes was Loynis, and from that time forward he became EvilLoynis or DEvilLoynis.
"Cure and Dispel are dirt cheap spells, Might hero would love for Magic hero to waste their only spell per round on spells that can be easily reverted and which don't benefit from the Magic hero's high Spell Power. Until your Magic hero get his overwhelming advantage, we're still going to play for several dozen rounds by my Might hero's rules."

I rarely see might heroes with expert level water magic necessary to cast mass cure. I don't even usually see mass cure from magic heroes.

Even with mass cure, versus the computer, blind and other such curses often stick and are not cured.
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blueskirt42: Cure and Dispel are dirt cheap spells, Might hero would love for Magic hero to waste their only spell per round on spells that can be easily reverted and which don't benefit from the Magic hero's high Spell Power. Until your Magic hero get his overwhelming advantage, we're still going to play for several dozen rounds by my Might hero's rules.
As Blarg pointed out above, although he missed one, both Cure and Dispel are from the Water Magic School and in order to use them to best effect to clear all your troops, or all the enemies troops, you would need Expert Water Magic.

Now EVERY hero should always max Earth Magic of course and I think no one would argue it. I also know that a lot of people max Air Magic because of Haste, Dimension Door and Fly but rarely have I seen Might Heroes encourage to get Water Magic.

Therefore the Might Hero would likely only be able to remove one negative effect at a time, unless it was slow and they had mass haste ofc.

Myself I love Water Magic for Prayer, Bless, Cure and perhaps Clone so I would likely be getting it IF I have these spells.
I pump up Air Magic because of the View Air spell. The main hero doesn't have to have it, but usually the other heroes doesn't become that powerful that they get Expert Air Magic, so it's probably better if the main hero has it.
Post edited May 18, 2013 by potato_head
I like having a secondary Hero with Diplomacy and Air Magic, who can find out beforehand which stacks are likely to join the main hero, and which stacks who need a diplomat's silver tongue to join.
I think the best spells for your starting town would be as follows:

Fortress and Stronghold (limit Level 3)

bless, cure, haste, slow, and view air; 1st level
blind, lightning bolt, precision, and visions; 2nd level
anti-magic, forgetfulness, and teleport; 3rd level

Castle (limit Level 4)

bless, cure, shield, slow, and view air; 1st level
blind, lightning bolt, precision, and visions; 2nd level
anti-magic, forgetfulness, and teleport; 3rd level
clone and town portal; 4th level

Conflux, Dungeon, Inferno, Necropolis, Rampart

bless, cure, haste or shield for slow or fast armies, slow, and view air; 1st level
blind, lightning bolt, precision, and visions; 2nd level
anti-magic or animate dead for necropolis, forgetfulness, and teleport; 3rd level
clone and town portal; 4th level
dimension door; 5th level

Tower (one extra spell/ level)

bless, cure, haste, shield, slow, and view air; 1st level
blind, lightning bolt, precision, quicksand, and visions; 2nd level
anti-magic, earthquake, forgetfulness, and teleport; 3rd level
clone, resurrect, and town portal; 4th level
dimension door and implosion; 5th level