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General discussion (archive)The Call for Moderation (Or, quit bugging me, n00b)(160 posts)solved(160 posts)solved
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 11, 2011
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Hawk52: Okay, first off, yes GR did something bad. It was before my time, but he's admitted he messed up. But you have no proof whatsoever that he still does it. All you have is rampant suspicion on ANYONE who posts anything questionable or agrees with him. The only reason I've escaped it is due to my typing abilities. If I was shall we say...Less coherent at times, I'd have so many people claiming I'm GameRager it wouldn't be funny.

And secondly, just because someone did something wrong once does NOT give people the right to treat him the way they do. People will post in threads they don't care about to insult him or de'rec him. People take liberal shots or accuse him of trolling for zero reason. He's the geek child at lunch around here, bullied by all the "respectable" jocks. It's not cool and it's not fair.

And thirdly, he made multiple accounts and messed with his rep? That's it? That's enough to swear eternal hatred, de'recing him for every post, and taking personal shots at every opportunity? Give me a break.

There is some serious bullying going on these forums. And if you don't want those taken care of, then you have no right to want any type of moderation.
Actually, we have plenty of proof, directly from his own "mouth". He has openly admitted that he created multiple accounts (he even named a few of them for us) strictly to screw with people on the forums and continued to use them long after he admitted it . This was not a case of something he did only once, the list of things he did started with posting porn on the forums and only gets worse from there. (BTW - the rep abuse was not restricted to just his own rep, he screwed with pretty much anyone who disagreed with him, civilly or otherwise), This was something he continued to do for MONTHS, with no real action on the part of GOG beyond locking his threads. The community simply has no more patience for his crap anymore, hence his treatment in later threads and the strong suspicion of anyone who acts like him or supports him. It is simply a case of reaping what you sow, the boy who cried wolf, chicken little... I've run out of idioms. But again, had there been mods around or definitive action from GOG in the beginning, his behavior might have been nipped in the bud and he would still be a contributing, though not necessarily respected, member of the community today... but to be honest, I really doubt anything short of an outright ban would have stopped him from doing the things he did.
Posted August 11, 2011
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Hawk52: Okay, first off, yes GR did something bad. It was before my time, but he's admitted he messed up. But you have no proof whatsoever that he still does it. All you have is rampant suspicion on ANYONE who posts anything questionable or agrees with him. The only reason I've escaped it is due to my typing abilities. If I was shall we say...Less coherent at times, I'd have so many people claiming I'm GameRager it wouldn't be funny.

And secondly, just because someone did something wrong once does NOT give people the right to treat him the way they do. People will post in threads they don't care about to insult him or de'rec him. People take liberal shots or accuse him of trolling for zero reason. He's the geek child at lunch around here, bullied by all the "respectable" jocks. It's not cool and it's not fair.

And thirdly, he made multiple accounts and messed with his rep? That's it? That's enough to swear eternal hatred, de'recing him for every post, and taking personal shots at every opportunity? Give me a break.

There is some serious bullying going on these forums. And if you don't want those taken care of, then you have no right to want any type of moderation.
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cogadh: Actually, we have plenty of proof, directly from his own "mouth". He has openly admitted that he created multiple accounts (he even named a few of them for us) strictly to screw with people on the forums and continued to use them long after he admitted it . This was not a case of something he did only once, the list of things he did started with posting porn on the forums and only gets worse from there. (BTW - the rep abuse was not restricted to just his own rep, he screwed with pretty much anyone who disagreed with him, civilly or otherwise), This was something he continued to do for MONTHS, with no real action on the part of GOG beyond locking his threads. The community simply has no more patience for his crap anymore, hence his treatment in later threads and the strong suspicion of anyone who acts like him or supports him. It is simply a case of reaping what you sow, the boy who cried wolf, chicken little... I've run out of idioms. But again, had there been mods around or definitive action from GOG in the beginning, his behavior might have been nipped in the bud and he would still be a contributing, though not necessarily respected, member of the community today... but to be honest, I really doubt anything short of an outright ban would have stopped him from doing the things he did.
Okay, but again, you have no proof he's still doing it. Past doings is all well and good, but nothing but suspicion says he still does it.

And the rep abuse is exactly what people do to him now. He goes into a thread and makes any kind of post, and suddenly he's at -10 or less rep because everyone de-recs him regardless of what posts he makes.

Unless you honestly think he's making multiple accounts to go around de-recing himself. Otherwise people are doing the same thing to him that they're angry about him doing in the past.
Posted August 11, 2011
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Tulivu: Rep should be open in My Settings.
My main problem is the possibility to give someone negative rep. That's a concept that is poisonous to every community. Thank god GoG have defused it somewhat.

I don't mind positive rep... it's a nice way to say thank you to someone, at least.

If I had my way, reporting a post would have no immediate consequences. No negative rep, hiding or anything.
Posted August 11, 2011
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Hawk52: Okay, but again, you have no proof he's still doing it. Past doings is all well and good, but nothing but suspicion says he still does it.

And the rep abuse is exactly what people do to him now. He goes into a thread and makes any kind of post, and suddenly he's at -10 or less rep because everyone de-recs him regardless of what posts he makes.

Unless you honestly think he's making multiple accounts to go around de-recing himself. Otherwise people are doing the same thing to him that they're angry about him doing in the past.
You mentioned it yourself, the history was before your time. So maybe you should reconsider how adament you are about defending GR, and I say this purely for your own sake (it will end up biting you in the arse).

You speak of it all as if it's past behaviour.. This is not the case. Just disagree with GR and see the onslaught of abuse he hurls at you. Why? Purely because you disagree. Everything is "wrong" if it doesn't fit in with the GR world view. You want to call it bullying? That's your choice. But many will take offense to that fact that you're painting him a victim.

And this does have a lot to do with GoG and their unwilling attitude to deal with this when it first started.

So, for your own sake, just take a step back and do a lot of observing. You might then reconsider being so defensive, or you might not. And what you mentioned about GR possibly derepping himself.. Well, I wouldn't put it past him to be honest, but that's speculative unlike everything else that has been mentioned.
Posted August 11, 2011
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Tulivu: Rep should be open in My Settings.
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Jaime: My main problem is the possibility to give someone negative rep. That's a concept that is poisonous to every community. Thank god GoG have defused it somewhat.

I don't mind positive rep... it's a nice way to say thank you to someone, at least.

If I had my way, reporting a post would have no immediate consequences. No negative rep, hiding or anything.
Well I have been vigorously flagging (I hit the keys really hard and cry aHa!) ifancy spam recently so it does serve some purpose.

EDIT:

@shalgroth - is that a national lampoon quote beneath your username, perchance?
Post edited August 11, 2011 by Tulivu
Posted August 11, 2011
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Hawk52: Okay, but again, you have no proof he's still doing it. Past doings is all well and good, but nothing but suspicion says he still does it.

And the rep abuse is exactly what people do to him now. He goes into a thread and makes any kind of post, and suddenly he's at -10 or less rep because everyone de-recs him regardless of what posts he makes.

Unless you honestly think he's making multiple accounts to go around de-recing himself. Otherwise people are doing the same thing to him that they're angry about him doing in the past.
Technically, the downrepping everyone does now is just a correction of the false up-repping he gave himself. With his initial posts, most people let it be known that what he was doing was not appreciated in the correct manner, they downrepped him. He took offense to this "unjustified attack" and took action against it by creating multiple accounts in an attempt to offset the completely justifiable negative rep he had. Frankly, the rep system was such a mess before he showed up that none of us really cared about it anyway and simply used the +/- to flag bad posts for the GOG staff (or good posts for the community), but GR just didn't get that (still doesn't, as far as I know). He made himself a target for the rep sabotage by making such a big deal out of it. Again, if action had been taken early on by a mod or GOG, or gawd forbid, GR got a clue, the whole thing would have been dropped and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Post edited August 11, 2011 by cogadh
Posted August 11, 2011
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Hawk52: Okay, but again, you have no proof he's still doing it. Past doings is all well and good, but nothing but suspicion says he still does it.
No one is claiming certainty, but you don't have to be sure to believe something.
Also - he has alternated between trolling and asking for forgiveness (which he personally claimed was insincere). It's not much of a stretch to be suspicious of his actions.
From what I've seen - people here are EXTREMELY lenient (lolwut ?) with him.
Posted August 11, 2011
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Hawk52: Okay, but again, you have no proof he's still doing it. Past doings is all well and good, but nothing but suspicion says he still does it.

And the rep abuse is exactly what people do to him now. He goes into a thread and makes any kind of post, and suddenly he's at -10 or less rep because everyone de-recs him regardless of what posts he makes.

Unless you honestly think he's making multiple accounts to go around de-recing himself. Otherwise people are doing the same thing to him that they're angry about him doing in the past.
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Shalgroth: You mentioned it yourself, the history was before your time. So maybe you should reconsider how adament you are about defending GR, and I say this purely for your own sake (it will end up biting you in the arse).

You speak of it all as if it's past behaviour.. This is not the case. Just disagree with GR and see the onslaught of abuse he hurls at you. Why? Purely because you disagree. Everything is "wrong" if it doesn't fit in with the GR world view. You want to call it bullying? That's your choice. But many will take offense to that fact that you're painting him a victim.

And this does have a lot to do with GoG and their unwilling attitude to deal with this when it first started.

So, for your own sake, just take a step back and do a lot of observing. You might then reconsider being so defensive, or you might not. And what you mentioned about GR possibly derepping himself.. Well, I wouldn't put it past him to be honest, but that's speculative unlike everything else that has been mentioned.
Okay. Seriously. If you can't see that post as a threatening message board post then you are completely delusional. You've basically just told me "Toe the line or we'll make your life hell here".

I don't work that way. If you all think past offenses are enough to bully the hell out of someone, and I am not the only one who doesn't like it, then go ahead and start de-recing me. Because every time I see it now, I'm going to call it out. I've talked to GameRager, and he's been nice to me. We've all made mistakes, that gives NO ONE the right to continually attack someone like people do on this forum. And then turn around and start crying about crap posts?

I don't care how long you've been here. I don't care how big your rep is. You, and anyone else, have no right to treat someone like shit because you feel like it. I don't care if my rec is -10 tomorrow, I'm going to do the right thing and stick up for someone you have no proof is doing anything wrong.
Posted August 11, 2011
Short version: The current system works for the people who are actually problematic. Moderation will only lead to political jackassery.


I got sent here. Apparently someone (won't say who, witch huntery peoples) was rounding up the people who mostly left general discussion and decided to stick to actual discussions about games... Or it is because I got an awesome day where I got to blast the final countdown on an endless loop while I saw the oh-so precious rep plummet to 0 (not sarcastic at all, that WAS hilarious and awesome :p. Still pissed that certain people tried to "fix" what wasn't broken).

My 2 cents (so not worth much, considering the value of the dollar. And I didn't read the thread. And barely read this board):
For the purpose of making a good community, the current system both works and fails.

It works in that openly disruptive people are pretty much drilled out of the community (for those who differ with my politics, count me in that boat :p). If someone runs around acting like a jackass (in a way that the majority of the community disapproves of), they get neg-rep. And when they do it enough, they notice.

It does not work in the sense that it leads to drama with certain people (GameRager comes to mind). But even moreso, it fails because it doesn't take into account the jackasses that actually drive people out of communities. Nobody is going to leave because of one or two people who say how much they hate everyone, otherwise there would be no such thing as a message board or a community. They leave because of negative atmospheres

I personally left because it became obvious that there were some very accepted members of this community who ran around pretty much blabbering hate speech about the United States non-stop (actually left because of a different flavor of quite hilarious jackassery, but that had been bothering me for a while and was probably the majority of the bricks on said camel). No, I don't mean they disapproved of us in Irafghanipakiya or wherever we are this week. I mean they were outright saying things that would probably have gotten them lynched at a college campus during a taping of the Daily Show... And nobody (but the few of us who got pissed off enough to actually say crap) ever said anything.

That is not the only thing (the same tends to apply to anyone who is vehemently leftwing, but a psycho rightwinger would get rightfully murdered. And let's not mention the dogpile the moment anyone doesn't tow the company line on DRM. And I do mean the "company" line :p), but that is what really drove me off (so guys, remember, to get rid of the people you don't like just start screaming hate speech :p). And the rep system doesn't work in that case, since nobody wants to neg-rep that kind of stuff because it is "hip". Or because they partially agreed and didn't realize how insanely offensive it was (bet you Redcoats are starting to get the picture, based on what little of the London riots thread I skimmed. Sad that it takes something that crappy, but at least keep it in mind in the future).

As far as moderation? For the idiot all-purpose trolls: Yeah, it will do the trick. So does the current system.
As far as the political/ideological/religious(or "lack thereof")/anti-capitalist rants: moderation will only cause more problems. Much as I really don't like a lot of the hatespeech that gets thrown around, there is nothing you can do. If GoG started moderating those, it would cause more of a stink because the crap that was accepted for so long is "suddenly unacceptable". Especially considering the climate of "Steam only likes Americans. Gamersgate has lots of sales that only favor Redcoats. Boo hoo!"

And honestly, the latter isn't a problem. I may feel that this is a community that largely excludes a lot of groups, but it is still one of the better ones overall. And contrary to popular belief: not every community is for every single person out there.

At it simplest, the people who actually feel comfortable here (and there are quite a few), feel comfortable here. And considering that, for the most part, this is a pretty decent community (for a general gaming community, so the bar is a whee bit low :p), that says a lot.
Post edited August 11, 2011 by Gundato
Posted August 11, 2011
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Gundato: If someone runs around acting like a jackass (in a way that the majority of the community disapproves of), they get neg-rep. And when they do it enough, they notice.
Wouldn't it be much more sensible to just talk to those people? Being confronted by other posters would make them notice at least as fast.

Negative rep has no positive effects. None.
Posted August 11, 2011
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Gundato: Snip
I almost left early on because of some very open hostility towards Christians. I was not even making a theoretical argument, just defending faith itself and was trolled, negrepped (more pointless than faith;) and had my identity as a Christian made fun of.

This is deemed acceptable still compared to ragging on any other group.
I will admit that there are people of faith that contribute to the problem (in the threads, usually with misinformed arguments) but the viciousness is not there.
Post edited August 11, 2011 by Tulivu
Posted August 11, 2011
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Gundato: If someone runs around acting like a jackass (in a way that the majority of the community disapproves of), they get neg-rep. And when they do it enough, they notice.
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Jaime: Wouldn't it be much more sensible to just talk to those people? Being confronted by other posters would make them notice at least as fast.

Negative rep has no positive effects. None.
Confrontation just leads to more arguments and a bigger mess in most cases. At least the rep system might act as a method of shaming people into thinking before they type without creating a multi-page thread of flaming.
Posted August 11, 2011
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Jaime: Wouldn't it be much more sensible to just talk to those people? Being confronted by other posters would make them notice at least as fast.

Negative rep has no positive effects. None.
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cogadh: Confrontation just leads to more arguments and a bigger mess in most cases. At least the rep system might act as a method of shaming people into thinking before they type without creating a multi-page thread of flaming.
An intervention sticky?

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!
Posted August 11, 2011
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Hawk52: Okay, but again, you have no proof he's still doing it. Past doings is all well and good, but nothing but suspicion says he still does it.

And the rep abuse is exactly what people do to him now. He goes into a thread and makes any kind of post, and suddenly he's at -10 or less rep because everyone de-recs him regardless of what posts he makes.

Unless you honestly think he's making multiple accounts to go around de-recing himself. Otherwise people are doing the same thing to him that they're angry about him doing in the past.
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cogadh: Technically, the downrepping everyone does now is just a correction of the false up-repping he gave himself. With his initial posts, most people let it be known that what he was doing was not appreciated in the correct manner, they downrepped him. He took offense to this "unjustified attack" and took action against it by creating multiple accounts in an attempt to offset the completely justifiable negative rep he had. Frankly, the rep system was such a mess before he showed up that none of us really cared about it anyway and simply used the +/- to flag bad posts for the GOG staff (or good posts for the community), but GR just didn't get that (still doesn't, as far as I know). He made himself a target for the rep sabotage by making such a big deal out of it. Again, if action had been taken early on by a mod or GOG, or gawd forbid, GR got a clue, the whole thing would have been dropped and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Not really, at this point it's purely bullying. The rep that he inappropriately gave himself has long since evaporated. At this point it's purely for the purpose of keeping him in negative territory.

What's worse is that it serving as a disincentive to make more substantive posts as some of the posts that I've seen down repped were completely without any problem.
Posted August 11, 2011
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Jaime: Wouldn't it be much more sensible to just talk to those people? Being confronted by other posters would make them notice at least as fast.

Negative rep has no positive effects. None.
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cogadh: Confrontation just leads to more arguments and a bigger mess in most cases. At least the rep system might act as a method of shaming people into thinking before they type without creating a multi-page thread of flaming.
Bingo. One person being annoyed just causes problems if everyone else feels okay about it.
Using Tulivu as an example (I am not religious, but it really IS crap how the "cult of scientific 'atheists'" feel the need to force their beliefs on others): Imagine if someone tried to call out one of the people who are just "pointing out the stupidity of believing in something science can't prove" (especially as they call evolution fact with a completely straight face :p). It wouldn't help. It would just make the person "picking the fight" seem argumentative, and disrupt the boards.

And before anyone thinks me bitter: I really am not. Aside from a few bigoted pricks, I have very few issues with the GoG community (at least, none that would keep me from having a nice conversation, discussion, or debate). And those pricks probably don't know who they are, since nobody wakes up and says "I am gonna go spout off some hate speech for a while".

Hell, I still keep in touch with a few people from the GoG community pretty regularly. Have some great discussions. And I still hit up the game boards every so often (not so frequently, since most of those games were discussed ad nauseum when they were new).

I don't so much keep in touch with the people who only ever hit me up when they wanted me to spot them some cash to buy a game (or gift them a game...), but they probably DO know who they are :p.

Oh, and if anyone really DOES wanna know what straw broke my back (is more funny than anything else), hit me up in a PM. No need to start a potential flamewar, but if you are able to have a good laugh, it is a hoot.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)The Call for Moderation (Or, quit bugging me, n00b)(160 posts)solved(160 posts)solved
(160 posts)solved