One of my major complaints about DarkoD13 is that he was always nitpicking others, but never coming out with something positive. I even noted his stance on trentonlf (but not yogsloth) in my notes, but I missed it while compiling my reads post. By no means does this exonerate him, but he no longer is at the bottom of my list; Vitek is now (hence he gets my vote).

I find this post highly contradictory. For someone who used my reasoning to vote for yogie, the mad park tree talking hobo, you sure do give him a ton of town points and you don't really link any whatsoever posts as to why, when and where.
It's not the town points that are disturbing, is the conflicting nature of your actions.

Your post was not my reason I voted for yogs. I did say I agreed with some of your points. I never once said your post was the sole reason I voted for him. As for MY notes they are just that mine. When I was jotting down things for myself I had no reason to quote or name a number on each post. When I read them over I can pretty much remember what was going on that had me write something on it. I also do not write down everything that pops into my head. Like I stated before these notes are my own for my reference from things I found interesting, points I want to remember, things i might find off or things I might find good.

Take my notes as you will that is your right but for now I am going to bed.

"Hippies" is a very dangerous word to use in Mafia games.

P.S. Sorry. Busy day at work so I'm a bit behind everyone. Will catch up.

I think he meant JMiches.

Thank you. What do you mean by "despite of alignment"?

Just a quick correction:
Post 1060 is my post. Perhaps you meant post 1061 or post 1016.

Then do me this favor. Explain why exactly you find yog scum. With your words, not anyone else's.

The renewed interest in CSPVG, initiated by Robbeasy, and carried on by HijacK and Vitek, has clarified to me how vague a mental image I had of him, for obvious reasons. The only thing I felt I could say about him was "lurker".

I therefore revisited his posts, with a special focus on the critical time around the end of day #1. Here is my summary of the major events, including all of CSPVG's visits (N = 3):

Post #389: CSPVG visits (15 Oct). adaliabooks still has zero votes.
Post #448: CSPVG visits (16 Oct). adaliabooks already has three votes. CSPVG concentrates on yogsloth. I agree with Vitek (#1080) that this feels potentially scummy.
Post #494: adaliabooks role claims but does not reveal ship model.
Post #528: adaliabooks reveals ship model.
Post #559: CSPVG visits (18 Oct). adaliabooks already has six votes. CSPVG hammers and reveals that his model is the same as adaliabooks.

I am sure you will be glad to hear that I found no linguistic clues in his three posts. However, I do believe I found a rather logical argument why he is more likely to be town than scum. I somehow feel that someone must have already mentioned this, but I failed to find any such post. If someone has indeed already mentioned this, I apologise for not crediting you.

Let's imagine for a moment that CSPVG is scum. He visits on post #559, sees that adaliabooks is for all practical purposes lynched and decides to hammer. He also notices that adalia's claimed ship model is identical to his. The only models he knows about are his, adalia's, and the one in the OP. He has no way of knowing what the logic of the models is. For all he knows the Iniurfas Mark IV might be unique to scum. By revealing his model he might be revealing his identity. I don't think that a reasonable scum would at that point rush to reveal his model to the town. A reasonable scum would sit tight, hope that whoever scans for ship models skips him, or that the logic of the models is eventually revealed to be more sophisticated that Iniurfas Mark IV = scum.

That's why I tend to believe for now that CSPVG is more likely to be town.

I am pretty sure that, given the curious pairing that Robbeasy has dropped upon CSPVG and me (I am certain that CSPVG was as surprised by it as I), someone will think that I am "protecting" CSPVG. I am not. I am offering my reading and interpretation of the events. I do not know whether CSPVG is really scum or town, but at the moment I tend town, simply because of the argument above.

That said, I really implore CSPVG to attend this game a lot more often than he did so far.

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I wanted to post an updated gradient list (no dramatic changes, same three people on the scum list), but it's late so I'll aim for tomorrow night.
trentonlf, I got a letter from the DMV that your gradient list is also up for renewal. This is not a rebuke. Au contraire. It's that I usually find your lists useful and interesting.

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I was expectedly impressed by Krypsyn's analysis (#1069 + #1072), even if I disagree with quite a few of his reads. I was most convinced by his arguments about Vitek, which coincided with my suspicions, but were much better expressed than mine. I would like to hear other people's opinions of Vitek (beyond the obvious "he's tremendoubly handsome and sexy").

Good night.

I am aware that every mod is different, but in every game where i've been Mafia, I've been told who are my fellow mafia players , and their roles.

Ugh! Ten minute rule! I meant to add to post above - in the PM before the game starts, where your own role is outlined.

Usually along the lines of

'your fellow Mafia players are 'blah, Mafia role, and blah, Mafia role'

And on what basis do you assume CSPVG had info of only 1 of scum's team and not its entirety? You're basically reducing their numbers to 2, which is a funny decision at this point in the game. Also, the OP ship model is relevant to this theory. Even if he knew it, he would have to have extra info from Telika in order to know the correlation to the game. Whether it is an actual thing or just a model used in the OP.

So why did he claim same ship? Well, various scenarios, but here's one. It was not needed, hence why by doing it, he hoped people would see that good will. Why wouldn't this be just as possible as what you have said?

Oh noez, vultures are already descending upon me. What shall I do?!

I agreed with him on yog in following post. See I have some good in me as well. *puppy eyes*

What I would like to see from Krypsyn is comparsion of my behaviour here to other games where I was all sunshiny about players unlike here where I am mr. Negative. I am obviously blinded to this as it's about myself but I don't remenber all that raindow I used in my summary in the past to find mafia compared to the evil I am comitting here.

Simple. Because he was true. I was indeed trying to dissuade people from "exploring specific avenues". I never saw benefits of talking about mafia numbers, possible night actions, kills, flavour or similar things, so yeah, I try to dissuade from them. Anyone who played with me can attest that. So I can't go after him for truth. I can't defend against it. I know it doesn't mean I am scummy (as should again know people who played with me as town before) but saw no use in trying to persuade him.
I know I am sometimes guilty of going after people who go after me if only because it will make me look at them more carefully, but only if I see something worth pursuing in them.

Very much this.
Unfortunately mafia often does not want to cooperate and uses it to stall because such lists help town.

You could also say it was for very much this reason.
He realised they have the same ship model and knew it would look bad in the future when he will claim (he admits that himself) so he put it out there to gain some good will "now" (back then) by sahring it willingly. I find this quite WIFOMy and it can go both ways.


I know you ignore my stats every time I make them but I can't help and mention the same thing Sage did. When they talked about it, I went back to prove it is norm to let people know. I found it indeed is but I also found that Telika have not informed mafia of their buddies role in his previous game, so it is quite a possibility it is same here.

@Sage; I hope you don't mind answering it myself but most often people got that info directly in their role PM. As ""you are mafia together with X (Mafia goon) and Y (Mafia Godfather). Few times they got no such information (only who is buddy, not role) but they were allowed to post in night chat before the game started so they shared it. and few times, like in Telika's previous game there was no info given (about role, buddies were).

I believe you are misinterpreting what mrkgnao meant. I am under the impression that whoever the mafia is does not know what their fellow mafia players ship models or roles are until night one. I base this off of the only game I've been mafia (last game) and we knew nothing until night one. Mrkgnao specifically asked me about this early on this game. If this is the case then CSPVG would not know anyone else's ship model. I could see CSPVG stating his ship model for good will purposes as you suggest too. You are also saying CSPVG is only scum in your post and basing all reasoning on that. If CSPVG is town he would not know any ship models other than his and adaliabooks after it's revealed by him. I still have CSPVG as leaning scummy, but I don't see your flaw in mrkgnao's post.

Onto my thoughts of Vitek
I left a wild theory for Vitek to comment on about CSPVG and his posting so soon after he said it might be Saturday. Vitek did not attempt to agree with this post or run with it to help support CSPVG as scum when he has already stated he believes CSPVG is scum. Instead he logically disputed the theory with sound reasoning. I have also gone back to see if I could find any time where Vitek has acted in a scummy manner. I don't see it. To me he is trying to push people to think about what they are posting and trying to find scum when he does. Is he all warm and fuzzy, no. He is abrupt at times, but I see his reasonings he gives for his thoughts on situations as pro town. If someone can show me a post/s I missed where this is not the case please do. I have Vitek as still leaning town.

@Krypsyn. Where has Darko attempted to twist what others have said? I can't seem to find anywhere he does and you left no links to posts that show it.

Now where have I said that in my post? All I did was question a theory that sounds fairly weak to me. When you counter a theory whether someone is town, of course it will sound like that someone would be scum, but the base is irrelevant regardless. When you'll read a post of mine saying "I am sure CSPVG is scum" then you can safely assume any theory is based around that. Questioning another theory is not.