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dtgreene: I find that this makes the choice paralysis that tends to be an issue with open world games even worse than it otherwise would be.

This actually is an issue I have with these sort of things; there are many things to do, but I can't think of anything I want to do. Also, an issue with leveling systems; I find that I don't like to make permanent choices about my character. In either case, this can lead to me not playing the game as much, or even quitting the game entirely.

Sometimes, I like having a linear game where there are no irreversible choices to make, whether with the path you take or how you level up your character.
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Krimzon14: Oh, I absolutely agree. Games from devs like Bethesda or Bioware (especially Bioware) can very much make the player feel a certain pressure when it comes to making choices, both in gameplay and story. Gameplay choices, like leveling up, can feel a bit unnecessarily difficult because you won't know how you like to play until you try it, or you won't know how useful a stat increase is until you see it's benefit in use and at that point, in most games, you can't take that choice back without restarting/reloading a save file (which I tend to hate because it can break the flow of immersion that I was likely enjoying before having to restart). Moral choices can make for interesting branching/alternate stories, but at the same time, I can't help but enjoy also more linear stories in games a bit more because there tends to be more thought into making a strong, single plot rather than dividing it into several different webs of potential story/character arcs. And the gameplay choices (such as those in action/adventure games) tend to also be vary linear. "Gain this many points to unlock the next skill upgrade" instead of "You need this many points to increase this stat, or this one, or this one, or any of these ones and then choose one of 6 skills/abilities but NO TAKE BACKS".

This is the main reason why I love a game like Final Fantasy 12 for PS2, because the story is perfectly linear but it's a large, relatively open world to explore with no permanent decisions I have to make with side-quests that don't feel completely like they're just there for filler content. I can have the characters be any role I need them to be (attack, magic, support etc). And every role/skill/ability/weapon/armour/item is available to them all as long as they have that license, which can make it rather grindy but still a very well-made game, at least in my opinion.
Part of the reason I like Final Fantasy 5 so much is how easily you can change character setups. For example, if the story happens to (temporarily) take away the character you were using as a healer, for example, all you need to do is change someone into a White Mage and she'll be able to cast all the White Magic you bought. Learned abilities are useful if you want to give an ability to a job that doesn't normally have it, and the ability point system works better than skill points; Ability Point (ABP) gain is separate from leveling, and it becomes easier to earn ABP the further you progress. (This is in contrast to level-based skill point systems, where you get skill points when leveling up, and leveling up gets harder at higher levels.)

An interesting case I observed in Avadon 2 (and the rest of the Avadon series works this way); while the game uses a skill point system, there is a cheat that you can use to re-allocate the character's skill points (I love this cheat, though things can get quite silly if you start using this cheat constantly mid-battle, so I didn't take it that far), and later in the game, there is someone who you can talk to to do the same thing for free. No penalty for respecing at all.

There are also some games, like Wizardry 1-5 (excluding 4), Bard's Tale 1-3, Ultima 3, the Etrian Odyssey series, and Elminage Gothic, where you can create as many characters as you want; if you don't like your party setup, you can change it, provided you're willing to take the time to level up the new character(s). In the case of Etrian Odyssey, this mitigates the problems with the skill point system by letting you create a new character and spend their skill points differently (and even then, there's an option to respec a character at the cost of a few levels).
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Krimzon14: Oh, I absolutely agree. Games from devs like Bethesda or Bioware (especially Bioware) can very much make the player feel a certain pressure when it comes to making choices, both in gameplay and story. Gameplay choices, like leveling up, can feel a bit unnecessarily difficult because you won't know how you like to play until you try it, or you won't know how useful a stat increase is until you see it's benefit in use and at that point, in most games, you can't take that choice back without restarting/reloading a save file (which I tend to hate because it can break the flow of immersion that I was likely enjoying before having to restart). Moral choices can make for interesting branching/alternate stories, but at the same time, I can't help but enjoy also more linear stories in games a bit more because there tends to be more thought into making a strong, single plot rather than dividing it into several different webs of potential story/character arcs. And the gameplay choices (such as those in action/adventure games) tend to also be vary linear. "Gain this many points to unlock the next skill upgrade" instead of "You need this many points to increase this stat, or this one, or this one, or any of these ones and then choose one of 6 skills/abilities but NO TAKE BACKS".

This is the main reason why I love a game like Final Fantasy 12 for PS2, because the story is perfectly linear but it's a large, relatively open world to explore with no permanent decisions I have to make with side-quests that don't feel completely like they're just there for filler content. I can have the characters be any role I need them to be (attack, magic, support etc). And every role/skill/ability/weapon/armour/item is available to them all as long as they have that license, which can make it rather grindy but still a very well-made game, at least in my opinion.
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dtgreene: Part of the reason I like Final Fantasy 5 so much is how easily you can change character setups. For example, if the story happens to (temporarily) take away the character you were using as a healer, for example, all you need to do is change someone into a White Mage and she'll be able to cast all the White Magic you bought. Learned abilities are useful if you want to give an ability to a job that doesn't normally have it, and the ability point system works better than skill points; Ability Point (ABP) gain is separate from leveling, and it becomes easier to earn ABP the further you progress. (This is in contrast to level-based skill point systems, where you get skill points when leveling up, and leveling up gets harder at higher levels.).
There's a neat system in Final Fantasy: Lightning Returns (I know some people don't like the XIII series for reasons but I enjoy my time with it) where you don't level up the character but you can level up the skills/abilities and your stats only increase after completing quests/side-quests, and the loadouts your bring into combat are based on the clothes/equipment you wear, of which you can have three that you can switch between in combat. It can make it a bit odd if you like the look of certain clothes/weapons but don't like the stats of them or vice-versa, but for the most part, it can make for what feels like fairly easy choices, as I just choose what seems the most useful combos and such.

It's these kind of differences in design decisions in Japanese Action/RPGs that can sometimes make them a bit more enjoyable than their western counterparts, at least for me, and can also make for interesting topics of comparison/discussion, depending on what games/devs are being compared/discussed.
I just bought Dragon's Dogma. Installing it now. Check it out before the sale ends. See if it's for you.
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dtgreene: I find that this makes the choice paralysis that tends to be an issue with open world games even worse than it otherwise would be.

This actually is an issue I have with these sort of things; there are many things to do, but I can't think of anything I want to do. Also, an issue with leveling systems; I find that I don't like to make permanent choices about my character. In either case, this can lead to me not playing the game as much, or even quitting the game entirely.

Sometimes, I like having a linear game where there are no irreversible choices to make, whether with the path you take or how you level up your character.
This is exactly why I stopped playing Wasteland 2 20 min in. You have to make a story significant decision with no real background information right off the bat. I don't want that kind of pressure, honestly. I'm told the game is fantastic. Maybe one day I'll be able to get that vitriolic taste out of my mouth and try it again.
if you want something like Skyrim, honestly the first thing I'd suggest is to try some of the Skyrim world/quest mods like Wyrmstooth and Falskaar. some of these are hard to find because modders can be finicky sometimes, but you can still get them. the Bruma one is a newer one that I still haven't played. I have a soft spot for a mod called Haafstad. I just went to the mod's page and I see that he's still updating it and he's made major additions and improvements since the version I played; he even has a worldmap for his new gameworld now.

"Hellow mah freend, welcome to Kirkmore!" you should play that mod and donate if you like. I think I donated to that guy and if I didn't well then I probably should do.

not really relevant to your question, but I just started playing Arena for the first time, and I was amazed at how similar it is to Skyrim and Oblivion and so on and how much of those games it actually preserves. usually when I play older games I have to overlook some of their technical aspects, but Arena drew me in very quickly. amazing when you consider how old it is.
Post edited February 23, 2018 by johnnygoging
Roleplaying game games

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dtgreene: I find that this makes the choice paralysis that tends to be an issue with open world games even worse than it otherwise would be.

This actually is an issue I have with these sort of things; there are many things to do, but I can't think of anything I want to do. Also, an issue with leveling systems; I find that I don't like to make permanent choices about my character. In either case, this can lead to me not playing the game as much, or even quitting the game entirely.

Sometimes, I like having a linear game where there are no irreversible choices to make, whether with the path you take or how you level up your character.
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paladin181: This is exactly why I stopped playing Wasteland 2 20 min in. You have to make a story significant decision with no real background information right off the bat. I don't want that kind of pressure, honestly. I'm told the game is fantastic. Maybe one day I'll be able to get that vitriolic taste out of my mouth and try it again.
To be fair, that's really the only decision in the game which locks out an entire area, it's done to give you a reason to replay the game.
Post edited February 23, 2018 by Crosmando
You might want to take a look at Kingdom Come: Deliverance, First person and open world, however it's free of any fantasy elements.

If you post your system specs we might know more if it can handle Witcher 3.
Post edited February 23, 2018 by Ganni1987
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Crosmando: Roleplaying game games

To be fair, that's really the only decision in the game which locks out an entire area, it's done to give you a reason to replay the game.
Well in my case, it was a reason to not play the game at all. I honestly got choice paralysis and just quit the game, and couldn't really bring myself to open it again for 2 weeks. Then I did and tried exploring the tutorial section for any information on the decision I was being asked to make, absolutely certain I missed an NPC or some flavor text or something, but no. It's help them or save this city. CHOOSE NOW!!!

So I uninstalled the game. I don't like making bad choices. I really don't like making bad choices because I'm not given the proper information to do so, and I especially don't when games are misleading about which choice will accomplish my intended goal.
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Crosmando: Roleplaying game games

To be fair, that's really the only decision in the game which locks out an entire area, it's done to give you a reason to replay the game.
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paladin181: Well in my case, it was a reason to not play the game at all. I honestly got choice paralysis and just quit the game, and couldn't really bring myself to open it again for 2 weeks. Then I did and tried exploring the tutorial section for any information on the decision I was being asked to make, absolutely certain I missed an NPC or some flavor text or something, but no. It's help them or save this city. CHOOSE NOW!!!

So I uninstalled the game. I don't like making bad choices. I really don't like making bad choices because I'm not given the proper information to do so, and I especially don't when games are misleading about which choice will accomplish my intended goal.
Neither is a 'wrong' choice though. Neither is 'right' either. In both the moral sense and gameplay sense. What you could do though is make a save, play through one way, then save that when you complete that section (it's pretty obvious where that particular section ends). Go back and play through the other way and see which choice you prefer.

You do miss out on an NPC either way, but it's not a big deal as you can cover their skills with other NPCs or members of your own party.

I certainly understand your paralysis, as I get that sometimes just in regular dialog choices, but that's usually because in many RPGs there is a definite 'best answer'. With the choice in this game though, there really isn't a 'best answer', so it's a lot more tolerable. Honestly, I kind of liked this 'crisis' point. It gave a lot more weight to your decision - something terribly lacking in many RPG games. Of course, take my post with a grain of salt because I loved the game and ran through it several times in a row... so I could be just a wee bit biased. :P
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GR00T: I am GR00T!
Thanks for that. Maybe I'll give it another go.
Isn't Skyrim considered the ground level in terms of quality? As in there's nowhere but up?
Lilium will be released on Steam this year hopefully. Gameplay-wise similar to Skyrim or to Oblivion even more. However it's much smaller and a bit short story-wise, indie and early access.
Attachments:
lilium.jpg (274 Kb)
Would the Outward game fit? It looks a bit like a Morrowind total conversion.
low rated
People consider skyrim an rpg? It has the most simplistic leveling system I've ever seen and none of the choices you make affect the story in any way.
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HANZ3R: People consider skyrim an rpg? It has the most simplistic leveling system I've ever seen and none of the choices you make affect the story in any way.
I don't classify Skyrim as an RPG, but not for either of the reasons you mention, as I don't consider them to be genre-defining aspects.

(Visual novels have choices that affect the story, and many non-RPGs have leveling systems, including, I believe, some sports and racing games (counting the upgrading of a vehicle as a leveling system).)