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General discussionUkrainian Civil War in progress?(1767 posts) (1767 posts) 
(1767 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 01, 2014
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ktchong: Seriously though, the US should invade and annex Canada.... and teach those Canadians how to pronounce "about" correctly.
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Matruchus: Yeah and we (Slovenia) will invade Croatia and the rest of former Yugoslavia and make it back :) lol
Guys, you two are something. There wasn't a single contact between Russian troopers (assuming they are there) and, well, anyone, but you already saw the rockets flying, smelled the fallout and proclaimed it's the new Cold War and the end of the world as we know it. :-)
Let's just see how this unfolds. That is, unless you can affect the situation directly.
Post edited March 01, 2014 by Sanjuro
Posted March 01, 2014
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ktchong: So it's settled. Russia is going into Ukraine. That's the only reason for the mass ground troop movements. They don't need that many soldiers for Crimea. It's gonna be a massive ground invasion.

Dang! All those US companies that have investments in Russia are gonna lose shitloads of money! And it's Saturday!
Russia wants to keep Crimea. Annexing all of Ukraine is more than what they want to try. I seriously doubt Putin has that in mind.
Posted March 01, 2014
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Matruchus: Yeah and we (Slovenia) will invade Croatia and the rest of former Yugoslavia and make it back :) lol
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Sanjuro: Guys, you two are something. There wasn't a single contact between Russian troopers (assuming they are there) and, well, anyone, but you already saw the rackets flying, smelled the fallout and proclaimed it's the new Cold War and the end of the world as we know it. :-)
Let's just see how this unfolds. That is, unless you can affect the situation directly.
Will see but unless Russian troops go back to Russia from Ukrainian teritory russians there or not that is going to be the outcome.

There is no reason for russian troops at least in that number to be in a foreign country even if their is a russian naval base there.

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ktchong: So it's settled. Russia is going into Ukraine. That's the only reason for the mass ground troop movements. They don't need that many soldiers for Crimea. It's gonna be a massive ground invasion.

Dang! All those US companies that have investments in Russia are gonna lose shitloads of money! And it's Saturday!
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scampywiak: Russia wants to keep Crimea. Annexing all of Ukraine is more than what they want to try. I seriously doubt Putin has that in mind.
I dont know but that is at what some of german news sources are pointing at. Will se what happens.
Post edited March 01, 2014 by Matruchus
Posted March 01, 2014
Hey, look at the bright side: all you Fallout fanboys out there will not get another chance to live out your post-apocalyptic fantasy in real life if everything goes bad. Yes!

Edit: Oh wait... the country that attacked the US in Fallout is China, not Russia. Nevermind.
Post edited March 01, 2014 by ktchong
Posted March 01, 2014
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ktchong: Hey, look at the bright side: all you Fallout fanboys out there will not get another chance to live out your post-apocalyptic fantasy in real life if everything goes bad. Yes!
LOL
Posted March 01, 2014
low rated
First of all my condolences to the people. Simple people always suffer, and pay the price for the politicians' whims. I might be an outsider, i might be ignorant to that place and circumstances... But i cannot help but wonder about some things, deeply...

1) Russia, Georgia and Ukrania had been in the Union (RIP) for many years! They were considered brothers and comrades! Why the departing, the betrayal, the backstabs?

2) Was NATO and European Union somehow involved in undermining current events? Both are quite the overlords and puppeteers (my country lives this fact in its people's skin, literally), and their secret/intelligence agencies are as of late being continuously heard of, for causing underground commotion to foreign places...

3) How on earth could some people, having been allied with Russians for decades, simply want to depart from them, and not only depart from them, but strike deals and bargains with their sworn enemies, on top of that, too? I mean, this is pretty stupid, under ANY scope and point of view... It's like people from my country wanting to depart from NATO, and tomorrow our country becomes like swiss cheese from uranium bombs! But people of my country do not have even HALF the balls Ukranian people own, kudos to them, and sympathies for their troubles...

4) Don't Ukranians notice how the strong nations of the European union, stomp flat upon, loot and condemn, the weakest countries? Like Italy, Spain and Greece? Do they want foreigners to dance their politicians like strip dancers and mules on crack? Do they want foreigners ruling their country partially, and making decisions for their economic and political affairs in their stead, for them, without them? Are they jealous of the outrage of poverty, unemployeement and downright peaceful, economic assault those countries feel daily?

5) What was the cause for people wanting THAT badly to join europe??

Please, try to answer to these questions. I am really interested in knowing the things i am unaware of. Please, also, do not feel offense or start bashing me. Politics are harsh, life is hard, truth is sometimes both simple and painful... Try to give me the chance to learn the things i want to know. What went so horribly wrong over there? Because, tomorrow, here where i live, we might just sink into civil war too, even without notice.
Post edited March 01, 2014 by KiNgBrAdLeY7
Posted March 01, 2014
The level of political "debate" here is astonishing.
Posted March 01, 2014
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ktchong: Hey, look at the bright side: all you Fallout fanboys out there will not get another chance to live out your post-apocalyptic fantasy in real life if everything goes bad. Yes!

Edit: Oh wait... the country that attacked the US in Fallout is China, not Russia. Nevermind.
No, no, no, no! China <span class="bold">sues</span> Ukraine, not invades it.
Posted March 01, 2014
Heh. I'm only 15, so I don't really know whats going on. But BBC news told me this:

1) Armed men (didn't specify who they were took over some places in Ukraine(?))

2) Russia wants to invade Ukraine for some reason

3) Putin is sending troops into Ukraine.

I hate BBC news. They talk more about bloody football than stuff like this.
Posted March 01, 2014
Well if i make the timetable of what was happening till now for anybody interested.

1. On friday russian special forces removed the crimean autonomous region president from office and install a new president.
2. Ukraine allready on friday evening confirmed 2000 russian troops present on crimea.
3. American president threatened Russia. Russia shrugs the threat off.
4. Saturday morning new crimean autonomous region president called for russian help to "preserve peace and prosperity"
5. Pro-russian protests start in the eastern ukraine - kharkov region,
6. Russian federal council allows military invasion in order to protect russian citizens in ukraine.
7. Russian troop buildup in ukraine confirmed at 15.000 troops after 10 pm today.
Post edited March 01, 2014 by Matruchus
Posted March 01, 2014
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: First of all my condolences to the people. Simple people always suffer, and pay the price for the politicians' whims. I might be an outsider, i might be ignorant to that place and circumstances... But i cannot help but wonder about some things, deeply...
I can give you my subjective point of view regarding some of these things.

1) Russia, Georgia and Ukrania had been in the Union (RIP) for many years! They were considered brothers and comrades! Why the departing, the betrayal, the backstabs?
Such things happen, Finland was part of Russian Empire for over a century (1809-1917) and then had a war with Soviet Russia.
Back then the countries had one ideology, one political party, common economy (or, well, heavily intertwined economies). After the Union was no more, they all went their (more or less) separate ways.

2) Was NATO and European Union somehow involved in undermining current events? Both are quite the overlords and puppeteers (my country lives this fact in its people's skin, literally), and their secret/intelligence agencies are as of late being continuously heard of, for causing underground commotion to foreign places...
I'd call Snowden, but it's past midnight here, I don't want to wake him up.
Seriously, I do not know. Western politicians were indeed sighted on the Maidan, but how much, if at all, they are responsible for the events that happened is not clear (as in "we suspect things but have not much of a solid proof").

3) How on earth could some people, having been allied with Russians for decades, simply want to depart from them, and not only depart from them, but strike deals and bargains with their sworn enemies, on top of that, too? I mean, this is pretty stupid, under ANY scope and point of view... It's like people from my country wanting to depart from NATO, and tomorrow our country becomes like swiss cheese from uranium bombs! But people of my country do not have even HALF the balls Ukranian people own, kudos to them, and sympathies for their troubles...
Different parties, different political views. I guess most countries have that, just not not all of them are ready to go this far.
On a side note, do not underestimate your people. A person in everyday life and a cornered person is not one and the same thing. If(god forbid!) the crisis arises , you might be surprised how much balls they really have.

4) Don't Ukranians notice how the strong nations of the European union, stomp flat upon, loot and condemn, the weakest countries? Like Italy, Spain and Greece? Do they want foreigners dance their politicians like strip dances and mules on crack? Do they want foreigners ruling their country partially, and making decisions for their economic and political affairs in their stead, for them, without them? Are they jealous of the outrage of poverty, unemployeement and downright peaceful, economic assault those countries feel daily?
Frankly, I have no answer. Maybe they just don't realize it's that bad or maybe they think that anything is better than the current situation.

5) What was the cause for people wanting THAT badly to join europe??
Hmm... Politicians?
Posted March 01, 2014
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: First of all my condolences to the people. Simple people always suffer, and pay the price for the politicians' whims. I might be an outsider, i might be ignorant to that place and circumstances... But i cannot help but wonder about some things, deeply...
avatar
Sanjuro: I can give you my subjective point of view regarding some of these things.

1) Russia, Georgia and Ukrania had been in the Union (RIP) for many years! They were considered brothers and comrades! Why the departing, the betrayal, the backstabs?
avatar
Sanjuro: Such things happen, Finland was part of Russian Empire for over a century (1809-1917) and then had a war with Soviet Russia.
Back then the countries had one ideology, one political party, common economy (or, well, heavily intertwined economies). After the Union was no more, they all went their (more or less) separate ways.

2) Was NATO and European Union somehow involved in undermining current events? Both are quite the overlords and puppeteers (my country lives this fact in its people's skin, literally), and their secret/intelligence agencies are as of late being continuously heard of, for causing underground commotion to foreign places...
avatar
Sanjuro: I'd call Snowden, but it's past midnight here, I don't want to wake him up.
Seriously, I do not know. Western politicians were indeed sighted on the Maidan, but how much, if at all, they are responsible for the events that happened is not clear (as in "we suspect things but have not much of a solid proof").

3) How on earth could some people, having been allied with Russians for decades, simply want to depart from them, and not only depart from them, but strike deals and bargains with their sworn enemies, on top of that, too? I mean, this is pretty stupid, under ANY scope and point of view... It's like people from my country wanting to depart from NATO, and tomorrow our country becomes like swiss cheese from uranium bombs! But people of my country do not have even HALF the balls Ukranian people own, kudos to them, and sympathies for their troubles...
avatar
Sanjuro: Different parties, different political views. I guess most countries have that, just not not all of them are ready to go this far.
On a side note, do not underestimate your people. A person in everyday life and a cornered person is not one and the same thing. If(god forbid!) the crisis arises , you might be surprised how much balls they really have.

4) Don't Ukranians notice how the strong nations of the European union, stomp flat upon, loot and condemn, the weakest countries? Like Italy, Spain and Greece? Do they want foreigners dance their politicians like strip dances and mules on crack? Do they want foreigners ruling their country partially, and making decisions for their economic and political affairs in their stead, for them, without them? Are they jealous of the outrage of poverty, unemployeement and downright peaceful, economic assault those countries feel daily?
avatar
Sanjuro: Frankly, I have no answer. Maybe they just don't realize it's that bad or maybe they think that anything is better than the current situation.

5) What was the cause for people wanting THAT badly to join europe??
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Sanjuro: Hmm... Politicians?
The reason why this happend is that Ukrainian rebells - now Ukrainian government - signed an international treaty with germany, poland and france and also the russian representative was there. After the foreign ministers from eu countries went home ukraine drove over the agreement.

The agreement was following - Yanukovich stays president till december 2014, elections in september 2014. What did the new government do - depose Yanukovich at once, make elections for may 2014.

That is why Ukraine wont get any help from EU or US they broke an international treaty so russia breaking another treaty with invasion is levelling the field really as long as it doesn tilt.
Post edited March 01, 2014 by Matruchus
Posted March 01, 2014
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Matruchus: The reason why this happend is that Ukrainian rebells - now Ukrainian government - signed an international treaty with germany, poland and france and also the russian representative was there. After the foreign ministers from eu countries went home ukraine drove over the agreement.

The agreement was following - Yanukovich stays president till december 2014, elections in september 2014. What did the new government do - depose Yanukovich at once, make elections for may 2014.

That is why Ukraine wont get any help from EU or US they broke an international treaty so russia breaking another treaty with invasion is levelling the field really as long as it doesn tilt.
I have a simple answer for that. A treaty you mention was made by foreign ministers, ex-president and opposition. People on Independence Square didn't delegate or give the right to opposition to make such agreements. Their demand was a resignation of a president. Opposition from the very beginning just tried to ride on the wave and didn't have much support even from the protesters. So clearly, when people die and some politicians make an agreement behind your back, you have the right to tell them to kiss your arse. And then the ex-president calls for Mourning day, which is the day the militia got fireweapons _officially_. Ain't that a sweetest thing?

Consider this. If _he_ considers himself a president, why did he run? From who? From people of his own country? He didn't even once come out to people and try to explain things. He just enjoyed his power, luxurious life and kept freaking smiling.
Post edited March 01, 2014 by AzureKite
Posted March 01, 2014
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: 5) What was the cause for people wanting THAT badly to join europe??
Probably the same as for many other eastern European countries wanting to join EU: to raise their own living standards (Ukraine has been doing quite poorly economically, even compared to other "poor" east European countries; I think this is the main motivator for the unrest in Ukraine, just like in many other countries).

Whether joining EU will automatically provide that is a different story, but at least it offers the young and educated people a chance to work abroad in other EU countries, and maybe they are hoping also for incoming investments.

Maybe e.g. the people of Estonia can tell whether EU has brought any benefits to their economy.
Post edited March 01, 2014 by timppu
Posted March 02, 2014
As a Chinese in America, this new development is actually a good new for me.

The fact is Americans always have to have an enemy. Americans always have to hate on some foreign "evil": the Russians, or the Muslims, or the illegal Mexicans, or Chinese. Americans also have very limited attention span, so they can only focus on hating one particular enemy at a time. Just before 9/11 happened, China - and Chinese by association - were the main target for American hostility. The US media was hating on China. Everyone in America (the white majority) was bashing China. Chinese in American -- even Chinese who were born outside China and had never been to China -- often felt under siege. I often had to pretend to be Korean so I did not have to deal with the hostility and suspicions, (and because my last name is "Chong", which could also be a Korean last name, so I could get away with telling people that I was Korean.)

On 9/11 when Muslim terrorists flew a plane into the Twin Towers, I actually felt... relief. I immediately knew Americans would redirect all their hatred towards Muslims and Arabs, which was good for me. That meant Americans would be too busy hating on Muslims/Arabs to be bothered with with China/Chinese. And I was correct. For years, America has focused their hatred and hostility towards Muslims and Arabs, and they have mostly left Chinese alone. However, in the past two to three years, America has started shifting its attention back to China again. Which has really made me feel uneasy.

Now that Russians will become America's enemy no. 1 again, I feel like Chinese in America have dodged another bullet. So yippie for me. It will suck to be "Ruskies" in America, but that won't be my problem. Hey, as long as it's not me.
Post edited March 02, 2014 by ktchong
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionUkrainian Civil War in progress?(1767 posts) (1767 posts) 
(1767 posts)