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snowkatt: i never said that azerello wasnt a good write
I'll say it than: He is not a good writer.
His Hellblazer run is one of the worst things I've ever read.
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MorningStar33: I'll say it than: He is not a good writer.
His Hellblazer run is one of the worst things I've ever read.
no comment really
all i ever read from azzerello was his superman story which wasnt exactly a thrilling story
but then neither was loeb's hush
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Breja: Now, the really funny thing is, the mainstream Batman comics have gone so completely off the rails
You could say the same for all of the New 52 universe. Somehow DC decided that it's best to leave years of character development back and just make everyone angsty killers. Seriously, I think that almost every super-hero killed at least someone if not more with this New 52. I wouldn't mind it at all if the stories were at least good, but more than 50% the stories were mediocre at best. Maybe everyone will get back their personality when this universe will die.
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Rievier: You could say the same for all of the New 52 universe. Somehow DC decided that it's best to leave years of character development back and just make everyone angsty killers. Seriously, I think that almost every super-hero killed at least someone if not more with this New 52. I wouldn't mind it at all if the stories were at least good, but more than 50% the stories were mediocre at best. Maybe everyone will get back their personality when this universe will die.
and the new 52 universe will die
DC loves to reboot everything every 5 years or so

and they wonder why they lose readers inbetween reboots and 114 issue crossover events that last 10 months ( forever evil)
and the stories are just not that good or over stay their welcome ( court of owls )
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Breja: Now, the really funny thing is, the mainstream Batman comics have gone so completely off the rails
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Rievier: You could say the same for all of the New 52 universe. Somehow DC decided that it's best to leave years of character development back and just make everyone angsty killers.
Or the other extreme, and some characters completely lost their edge and became bland, dollar store knock-offs of their former sleves, like Green Arrow or John Constantine. I have given up on almost all of New 52 a long while ago, but I still follow the news, just out of curiosity, and to know when something intersting like the Earth One graphic novels is coming.

The only New 52 comics I'm reading are Azarello's Wonder Woman, wich is great but honestly should have been a Vertigo comics, and Earth 2, which is really interesting Elseworld (but we really did not have to lose the original JSA to get this). Both have run their course by now, but I'm buying the trades right now. And I might eventually pick up Justice League 3000, because it is also pretty much seprate from the New DCU, an elseworld despite not being called that.
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snowkatt: and the new 52 universe will die
DC loves to reboot everything every 5 years or so
People keep saying that, but it's really not true. There have been big events that retconned some stuff, sure, but there wasn't a a total universe reboot between the original Crisis on Infinite Earths and Flashpoint.
Post edited July 16, 2015 by Breja
^just a load of reboots that undid everything the original crisis accomplished
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snowkatt: ^just a load of reboots that undid everything the original crisis accomplished
But the characters were not wiped, and that's what's important for me. I don't really care if there is one Earth or 52 or infinity in the DCU, but I do care about Tim Drake or Green Arrow getting all of their history and development thrown out the window, or my favorite heroes from JSA no longer existing.
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Breja: But the characters were not wiped, and that's what's important for me. I don't really care if there is one Earth or 52 or infinity in the DCU, but I do care about Tim Drake or Green Arrow getting all of their history and development thrown out the window, or my favorite heroes from JSA no longer existing.
as far as i am concerned they were retconned so much they might as well be wiped
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Breja: Or the other extreme, and some characters completely lost their edge and became bland, dollar store knock-offs of their former sleves, like Green Arrow or John Constantine.

The only New 52 comics I'm reading are Azarello's Wonder Woman, wich is great but honestly should have been a Vertigo comics, and Earth 2, which is really interesting Elseworld (but we really did not have to lose the original JSA to get this).

People keep saying that, but it's really not true. There have been big events that retconned some stuff, sure, but there wasn't a a total universe reboot between the original Crisis on Infinite Earths and Flashpoint.
He was best when his comic was light-heart, same as Super-man and others, but DC had to screw it all by trying to make every comic be like Christopher Nolan's Batman movie. As for John Constantine is because DC is not mature enough and doesn't know how to write a mature book( even if they try a lot) like Vertigo does, and like all the comics being published by DC they link all their characters for future events, while on Vertigo they could go without restraints. Don't know if it's the same now like it was in the past or DC put restraints on them.

It's nice that you can read that, but don't buy past 23 since that was his last time when he wrote( or maybe 24, I can't remember right now) and then Wonder Woman became a lackluster book.

Oh, you know that this New 52 universe will end sooner than later. DC needs to do something about it. I think that they even got dropped sales. Right now I can't tell one super-hero who has redeeming qualities, or actually one who even have a personality.
Meanwhile Marvel is doing great and I must say that I'm really curious what they will do after Hickman and Redeemer will depart.
Neverthless, I find Image, Oni, Dark Horse and all the other small/medium publishers better for me when it comes to stories.
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Rievier: He was best when his comic was light-heart, same as Super-man and others, but DC had to screw it all by trying to make every comic be like Christopher Nolan's Batman movie.
If you're talking about Green Arrow, then in his case I would not agree. He wasa at his best in more serious, realistic stories like Mike Grell's run back in the 80's, or the classic Green Arrow/Green Lantern. Green Arrow vol 3, written by Kevin Smith, followed by Meltzer and then Judd Winnick was a very good balancing act between more colorfull superhero stuff, and still keeping that down to earth feeling about the characters.

All in all, it's not that I dislike dark, serious storylines. Those can be great. Often were. Most of my favorite comics would fall into that category. But in the past there was substance to it, not just shock value for it's own sake, which seems to be DCs new policy. Just do whatever crazy shit that will generate buzz on the internet.

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Rievier: Oh, you know that this New 52 universe will end sooner than later. DC needs to do something about it. I think that they even got dropped sales. Right now I can't tell one super-hero who has redeeming qualities, or actually one who even have a personality.
Meanwhile Marvel is doing great and I must say that I'm really curious what they will do after Hickman and Redeemer will depart.
I have not follwed Marvel for a long time. I was always more of a DC fan, and eventually droped Marvel altogether. I tried to get back into it a few times, but always came away dissapointed. And they have done some pretty "New 52-ish" stuff too, that only makes me even less interested. One More Day is the most famous example. There's also the black Nick Fury jr. (because movies), Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch retconned to not be Magneto's kids (because movies), or the female Thor, and that's just no how it work, damn it. You get the power of Thor, not his identity. Wearing Batman's costume did not make Dick Grayson Bruce Wayne.
Post edited July 16, 2015 by Breja
Hope it turns out good eventually.
Post edited July 16, 2015 by Gog8
Azzarelo's Hellblazer run and especially Hard Time was nice. But Miller, lately...It's like Grant Morrison: he needs a really short leash. So, no, not very excited here.

As for DC, since 52 (the original one) they are destroying methodically any continuity. Plus undoing all what Wolfman did in Crisis on Infinite Earths. Multiverse is a nice concept, but only taken in small dosages. I stopped reading Marvel when they started to have all those alternative universes, as it was hard to follow who was who and why and so on. As for DC, did the same after the original 52. Too much effort just to realize where most of the damn stories where happening.

Crisis on Infinite Earths was made for a major cleanup of the DC multiverse. Reduce the number of duplicate/triplicate/etc heroes and the number of alternate universes....it succeeded quite nicely and for a few years, DC managed to have an inteligible continuity. Having lots of crisis since that mother of them all...Just led to New 52/Convergence. Tons of heroes (each having a number of variations in the multiverse), no logical continuity, it's just damn hard to follow anything.

I kind of blame DiDio and WB on the today's mess. Jenette Kahn managed to keep WB away for a long time, giving DC a lot of autonomy. After she left, things went downhill. Vertigo's drop in quality titles, merging the WildStorm universe into DC (which made no sense at all), Crisis after Crisis, reboot after reboot, catering to politically correctness in a very hypocrite way - they changed the Wonder Woman cpstume for being sexist, but they've fired the people that were doing a very lesbian Batwoman for trying to have a gay wedding in the series (excuse "heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives")

DC managed to rise from the bottom where Marvel pushed it in the late '60's and 70's by upping their game: heroes with relationships, internal conflicts, great/memorable teams, showing the every day life of a hero, making new and interesting heroes or revamping the old ones without losing their core. And now they are back to the bottom, due to poor management and market understanding. DC claims that they want to attract new readers, but the funniest thing is that most kids i met and were comic book readers, they read their parents collections first and they are as unhappy with the new portrayal of the classic characters as the old readers are. Kind of sad to see how disconnected DC became of the market.

End of my rant. Doubt that people will actually read.
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wolfsrain: End of my rant. Doubt that people will actually read.
I did, and I mostly agree. I think the only thing I don't agree about is that I don't have a problem with the Multiverse existing again. Despitethe mess it introduces it's too interesting a concept to permanently leave it out. And no matter how convincingly you destroy it, t always will exist sort of "in the ether". All the elseworlds, all the previous continuities, it's always there, waiting to be tapped into, even if at the moment, theoretically, there is no "multiverse".



And now for something completely different.
TRON Batman sitting on a throne.

I seriously hope the next issue will see Hal Jordan asking him "how shall we fuck off oh Lord?"
Post edited July 17, 2015 by Breja
Isn't that Metron's famous chair?! For the love of ....oh wait, yeah, Jack Kirby's New Gods needed more twisting.

So, did anyone see that recent JLA: Gods and Monsters?!

P.S.: don't forget our new DC mess, called Convergence, a new Crisis that will continue the events from World's End and Future's End....
Post edited July 17, 2015 by wolfsrain
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wolfsrain: Isn't that Metron's famous chair?! For the love of ....oh wait, yeah, Jack Kirby's New Gods needed more twisting.
It is. It also told Batman the Jokers true identity, and he went PING.

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wolfsrain: So, did anyone see that recent JLA: Gods and Monsters?!
Not yet. I didn't think it was out yet?

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wolfsrain: P.S.: don't forget our new DC mess, called Convergence, a new Crisis that will continue the events from World's End and Future's End....
Convergence already wrapped up. It did... things...and stuff. I don't know. Like I said, I don't really read those anymore, and it was impossible to make much sense of it from the news. Basically it was about everything DC ever did kind os still existing, and then everyone fought everyone, and now there is even more of a Multiverse out there than there was. Or something.

Oh, and I did rid the #0 issue of Future's End. Got it for free with a shipment of other comics. Holy crap, was it bad. Some of the worst, most unoriginal and forced grimdark edgy stuff I've seen. The whole thin was so unintentionally silly it baffles me to this day. And that was just the #0. I didn't even get to the "good" stuff, like the Batman/Joker cyborg.
Post edited July 17, 2015 by Breja