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MarkoH01: I am confused. This is exactly the same as on GOG - but the merged version does not have the mission packs in it anymore. So if this happened on Steam they don't have access to the missions pack anymore as well.
Wolfenstein 3D on GOG was a single product. Suuuure, it took two slots in the library, but you still couldn't pay for either one separately; you had to buy both. This was not the case on Steam. And sure, GOG could have always just updated one of the two slots and leave the other one alone but, apparently, they thought the second slot was redundant and to the dustbin of history it went.
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MarkoH01: Which would give them the right to remove it FROM STORE but not FROM LIBRARY of those who purchased when they still had the rights- that is the problem here.
Yes of course. But also a "no" in specific circumstances, for instance Codemasters removed Operation Flashpoint and we never saw the Red Hammer campaing due the licensing rights expiration.
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Cadaver747: I can't wait for the "please contact Microsoft" reply and complete delisting of all Bethesda games from GOG shortly afterwards.
Don't worry. GOG would rather lose a few customers than losing Bethesda. They will simply ignore my last reply and close the ticket. Wanna bet?

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Cadaver747: And yes, it's not fun anymore, sometimes it feels like a routine work to me.
Yeah, that is what I wanted to say.
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Lord_Kane: I still have the SOD mission packs when I install SOD from my steam version.
That's exactly what MarkoH01 said - the game was removed from Steam store but not from the library, purchased game has the same content as before. The same approach would be expected from GOG in that regard.
Post edited January 18, 2023 by Cadaver747
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MarkoH01: I am confused. This is exactly the same as on GOG - but the merged version does not have the mission packs in it anymore. So if this happened on Steam they don't have access to the missions pack anymore as well.
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Grargar: Wolfenstein 3D on GOG was a single product. Suuuure, it took two slots in the library, but you still couldn't pay for either one separately; you had to buy both. This was not the case on Steam. And sure, GOG could have always just updated one of the two slots and leave the other one alone but, apparently, they thought the second slot was redundant and to the dustbin of history it went.
Aaaah - that explains why I could not find my order for SoD anymore. Thank you once again for the explanation.
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Lord_Kane: I still have the SOD mission packs when I install SOD from my steam version.
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Cadaver747: That's exactly what MarkoH01 said - the game was removed from Steam store but not from the library, purchased game has the same content as before. The same approach would be expected from GOG in that regard.
time to start screaming at gog then.
high rated
Well if nothing else it is a reminder that having the offline installers for the games you bought is important.
We can inundate support with tickets about this. Everyone should file a ticket on this.
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MarkoH01: Which would give them the right to remove it FROM STORE but not FROM LIBRARY of those who purchased when they still had the rights- that is the problem here.
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Cadaver747: Yes of course. But also a "no" in specific circumstances, for instance Codemasters removed Operation Flashpoint and we never saw the Red Hammer campaing due the licensing rights expiration.
The legal side here really interests me. What is it that you actually buy when you buy on digital stores like GOG or Steam? Are they even required to let you download the game after you have once downloaded it? With DRM'd games the question is rather simple because you won't be able to play the game anymore if they don't provide the constant option to reeinstall it in the client but with GOG things are different since you get your installer you can archive. So I am wondering if the seller is required to keep the option for another download. We all know that even backups are not safe and bad things do happen. I could not find much regarding such specific cases when searching the net. Some links or information would be interesting.
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Lord_Kane: time to start screaming at gog then.
Unless it's a GOG Survey or at least a thousand posts in that thread I hardly see them hear us. And if it was the direct instructions from Bethesda it could take a while to generate the official statement without breaching the contract. Much easier to ignore the whole thing and pretend nothing happened.
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Cadaver747: That's exactly what MarkoH01 said - the game was removed from Steam store but not from the library, purchased game has the same content as before. The same approach would be expected from GOG in that regard.
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Lord_Kane: time to start screaming at gog then.
Let me quote a bit from my recent conversation with them

"Please tell the guys in charge on GOG that this is
a sure way to lose customers. If I can't be sure anymore that the games
I purchased on GOG can be played tomorrow as well why even bother with
DRM-free then? I could as well buy on Steam. PLEASE forward this message
as I am not sure what I should think about GOG right now ... I thought
GOG would care for their customers more than their so called "partners"
but it seems as if nothing is sure anymore. Maybe I really should drop
DRM-free and go to Steam. More games, cheaper games, better client,
achievements for every game, a forum that isn't broken, people that now
how to program ... please tell me why I still should support DRM-free if
it still is up to the publisher what I can keep and what not? This
(obviously false) safety was what brought me to DRM..."

I think it was enough "screaming" - they still did not care. On the one hand they have one unsatisfied (long time and loyal) customer - or even a few ... on the other hand they have a biiiiig publisher with lots of games several customers want to see here. So it is not really a choice for them it is a given.
Post edited January 18, 2023 by MarkoH01
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MarkoH01: The legal side here really interests me. What is it that you actually buy when you buy on digital stores like GOG or Steam? Are they even required to let you download the game after you have once downloaded it? With DRM'd games the question is rather simple because you won't be able to play the game anymore if they don't provide the constant option to reeinstall it in the client but with GOG things are different since you get your installer you can archive. So I am wondering if the seller is required to keep the option for another download. We all know that even backups are not safe and bad things do happen. I could not find much regarding such specific cases when searching the net. Some links or information would be interesting.
To my undestanding we don't *own* the game even in DRM free format from GOG. What we buy from Steam or GOG or any other such digital store is a *rental certificate* and promise of goodwill that it will be prolonged till the end of ages unless a force major happens. Yes, there are strict EU laws and there were a few cases against Steam and other stores to allow users to actually *own* the products for which they paid their money and... nothing changed.

Legally we have almost no rights for everything after 30 days since the purchase (given no downloads were made).
Post edited January 18, 2023 by Cadaver747
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Lord_Kane: time to start screaming at gog then.
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Cadaver747: Unless it's a GOG Survey or at least a thousand posts in that thread I hardly see them hear us. And if it was the direct instructions from Bethesda it could take a while to generate the official statement without breaching the contract. Much easier to ignore the whole thing and pretend nothing happened.
Yep, that is the GOG way. Works as long the media isn't interested and I guess the media could not care less about this. Like I said, I don't have any hope here and I did not post because I still expect hope. I simply posted because I felt like it.
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MarkoH01: The legal side here really interests me. What is it that you actually buy when you buy on digital stores like GOG or Steam? Are they even required to let you download the game after you have once downloaded it? With DRM'd games the question is rather simple because you won't be able to play the game anymore if they don't provide the constant option to reeinstall it in the client but with GOG things are different since you get your installer you can archive. So I am wondering if the seller is required to keep the option for another download. We all know that even backups are not safe and bad things do happen. I could not find much regarding such specific cases when searching the net. Some links or information would be interesting.
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Cadaver747: To my undestanding we don't *own* the game even in DRM free format from GOG. What we buy from Steam or GOG or any other such digital store is a *rental certificate* and promise of goodwill that it will be prolonged till the end of ages unless a force major happens. Yes, there are strict EU laws and there were a few cases against Steam and other stores to allow users to actually *own* the products for which they paid their money and... nothing changed.

Legally we have almost no rights for everything after 30 days since the purchase (given no downloads were made).
Well the licence they gave me was about using the software I purchased at this time which was SoD AND the mission packs. I still have the rights to use this software, they simply blocked access to it - the license in itself was never changed or revoked. That is the tricky part for me.
Post edited January 18, 2023 by MarkoH01
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MarkoH01: Well the licence they gave me was about using the software I purchased at this time which was SoD AND the mission packs. I still have the rights to use this software, they simply blocked access to it - the license in itself was never changed or revoked. That is the tricky part for me.
I was too slow to add that part:

There were precedents of people banned for various reasons from the account and blocking their access to the purchased games. And we also have Ubisoft with 6 months of dormant policy to kill the account, the French company in the heart of Europe and I hardly saw any cases against them for robbing EU citizens.

You have the rights to download whatever the store and the publisher decide for you. For instance the game might be *upgraded* without you knowing or wanting which forever block you from downloading the original. We had those cases as well.
Post edited January 18, 2023 by Cadaver747
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MarkoH01: Well the licence they gave me was about using the software I purchased at this time which was SoD AND the mission packs. I still have the rights to use this software, they simply blocked access to it - the license in itself was never changed or revoked. That is the tricky part for me.
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Cadaver747: I was too slow to add that part:

There were precedents of people banned for various reasons from the account and blocking their access to the purchased games. And we also have Ubisoft with 6 months of dormant policy to kill the account, the French company in the heart of Europe and I hardly saw any cases against them for robbing EU citizens.
If this really happened in that way it actually is a shame that nobody sued. When I asked about such things on Steam years ago I was always told that Steam never blocked complete access only access to illegal required games or such ... did not know about the Ubisoft policy - but if this policy is also part of their TOS you were aware when you signed so that would be okay too - if there is nothing in the TOS I am sure it would be illegal to delete complete accounts without contacting the owner.