We say parents have to take control. Many parents are still years or decades behind what kids know today about computers. That is where the problem can lay. Sure the parents can put on filters, nanny protection, etc, but if the child is smart in computers they know how to simply bypass it and not every parent can be sitting behind their child 24 hours a day, plus add in removeable media, kids getting money from grandparents or whoever and you under 18 with money that can get the game without much problems, despite the best attempts of parents. However parents do need to make sure they stick to the rules and don't deviate or give an exemption to one game and not to another.

Well on the issue of your customer base, you should always be aware of who your customers are. Obviously the number of female games is less than male gamers. Just as those who demand kosher hot dogs are fewer than those who want normal hot dogs. However as a business owner you need to be sensitive to as much of your base as possible. Sure women might make up a small part of gaming customers but they can wake up those that don't game to avoid game sites or companies that perhaps their children play or buy. Trust me I am tired of hearing about PC and every company wanting to tell you how they have this person as new reporter, CEO, CFO or whatever. You should pick the best candidate, period. Factors of who they are beyond an applicant should be supressed or not viewable, but save this for some other debate.

Some stores have found it easier simply not to carry AO or adult themed games. However that is console and you don't see more than maybe a couple of games there. However PC is different and I am sure probably 90% of games are now bought via online distribution versus a physical copy of the game.

We all know the honest gate of verifying your birthday is useless without a physical proof like a birth certificate or federal ID or something and that would be too costly, so age barriers can be overcome very easily.

I still don't believe this is a censorship issue. We aren't banning the developers/publishers from making the games. We simply want a way to filter those specific games out of the gog, steam or whoevers catalog. We also feel why can't these games have sites that cater to strictly those interested and that way those sites can invest in more challenges to verify your age, but I haven't seen anything that shows it can deter under 18 from access. So asking for content not be on a site is not censorship it is asking to keep a site to a higher standard versus saying you can't make those games, that then is censorship.

What do those questions have to do with the "different types of games should be sold in different stores" policy?

In regard to loot boxes I am 100% against them. Many time they include items that should have been in the game to start. Second I don't like the pay to win, pay to have more or any other pay for/to. Some kids are smart and save, others have parents that simply spoil them and then others who simply can't afford and so the chances they have the items/skills or whatever in the loot boxes needed to have fair competition in games. If loot boxes were cosmetic and pets, then that is fine to me. World of Tanks is a great example of abuse of the wallet factor. They have a holiday event. You get the small box (small gift) for doing things and so they are free however they exclude all the things that divide the pay to want to win/wallet warriors versus those who see it is ridiculous to have to pay to get the large boxes (big gift) that gives all the things to people who want to spend the money. It is in some ways a perfect example the more you spend the more opportunities and the less you spend the more you are restricted to base level tanks that don't have special things. They don't allow you to buy these big boxes without real money, sorry no in game asset can get those.

Okay I don't know where or how you consider these games as a way of explorings one's sexuality. I don't think these games are focused on that. Since usually for male gamers/consumers they aren't exactly going to limit what can be done or created for the women in the product. Explorings sexuality in a game, really bad idea and they still are what they are. These games don't teach they entertain you. You can easily find those who are part of the adult entertainment industry who have said honestly that if you think the sex scenes in porn is how sex is, you would be wrong as we take multiple takes, moving around for perfect angles, breaks to grab something to eat and a great deal of editing or cutting behind the scenes. So the Adult Industry actresses say don't think what you see is what you will do. The arguements the industry uses is they point to European countries where they don't have problems. The problem is that the US is a culture of its own people can't be measured against European norms. Amsterdam and the red light district is a good example of what works there won't work here, yes I am aware of the legal areas in Nevada but that isn't the red light district in Amsterdam. I have visited Amsterdam and it was a still opening your mind to things you know would never work in the US.

There are sites out there that are dedicated to selling nothing but adult movies. In searching for non-porn I have had sites that cater to adult only movies getting into regular search request. That seems to work for the industry, especially with online distribution or sales from the site shipped to you. I still remember in the days of VHS and DVD rental where companies would have this one area that was sectioned off and said Adults Only or 18 and over only or whatever, which I think helped to stigmatize those in it. However now there are businesses who can sell items without a customer losing face because being caught buying it. Same things applies to games. I think adult games could really have a renissance by moving to sites that cater to that instead of trying to squeeze into most gaming distribution sites. They are more likely to turn off buyers than gain new ones.

Quality, well we all know the saying, you will not find an oscar worthy adult movie and you not going to find AAA directors or actresses or actors either. The scripts are less than works of art as they aren't the focus as what happens between the women and men in the movies. The same appears in most of the hentai and adult games on steam and now sadly steam, totally outragous measurements, the skinniest of outfits, outfits that don't match the environment like wearing a torn shirt and pants while being labelled a Fighter class in an RPG. You will want armor and not armor that hangs off of you or exposes you in certain areas, that is silly and not really the best way for female characters to protect themselves and games haven't accounted for the gaps in armor of female npc's, monsters or characters. Yes even games that aren't adult are guilty of this. However if you even see a title of the adult direction you think, yeah okay whatever on those sizes or content.

However while some things can be viewed as subjective, doesn't mean you don't find a way to provide filters that address those type of games so one can simply never have it show up in a search of a websites games catalog. It also means you as a company might not want to be a censor or barrier to a product entering your website for sale but at the same time you don't want to put products out that will cheapen the view of the content you provide. Wait till GOG has over 100, then you will see the point of this arguement. Wait till they make titles that might sound or seem harmless based on screenshots provided by the company and sell on GOG or other platform and then all you have to do is look at tags, like sex, sexual content, nudity, abuse and so on, and you know to pass and filter it out but the point is why do we have to see it to filter it, the filters should already be there to start so we don't waste our time. Also remember a company image can be damaged by the products they sell. If you sell cheap, poor quality games, consumers will wonder why you allowed them in the online store especially since most game purchases have either no returns or very very strict return policies.

rjbuffchix, made the comment about repressed and censoring more of adult content. Well that is an obvious thing to defend them. I bet you wouldn't want your 10 year old watching parodies of movies in porn or watching other content that they aren't even prepared to understand let alone should even be seeing. In movie ratings, we keep the hard violence and language movies behind pg13, pg17, r (using MPAA ratings for the USA) but you don't seem to see that as censorship?

YOU are the one claiming that porn should be here by saying that sport games are here, but they are not.
If someone wants to play sport games, he/she will not find them on GoG since GoG is not selling them.

Attacking females rights to have books that are written for them is wrong. They read those books I am sure more than men and yes they have provactive covers, but they lack any illustrations, any images, any videos, etc other than using descriptive actions and even then I don't think they go into very descriptive detail (I could be wrong, never read one, not my cup of tea) however that could be compared to Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue or Calendars that cater to either men or women. So blaming cheezy paperback novels is saying well if we can't offend women in games then they can't offend us in novels. Two totally different concepts and products. I doubt the novels show a guys actual size or give actual size measurements other than using descriptive words and phrases.

I am saying timppu, that, stores should find way to allow those of us who don't want to see them in the catalog to filter them. Second a online distribution company should think do we want to increase the size of our catalog with these titles. I NEVER SAID BAN MAKING THEM. That would be censorship and I would be against that, it is not illegal to make them, but do remember if you look at a hentai game, the characters sometimes are potrayed as being of a younger age, sure the character might say they are 23, but they are dressed and appear to be younger. No I have not played a hentai game, but just go to steam and look at the screenshots and you will see what I mean. The same rules would apply if they had porn or educational experience titles for women or gay, lesbian or any of the other categories, the material just doesn't fit into gog or steam and really if companies can't find a way to filter them out for customers by choice then perhaps the titles could be sold in a online store that specializes in that content. My point has nothing to do with making games for women that meet their needs or desires. It is being sensitive to maybe an under represented group in gaming. I couldn't care less if they did or didn't make female games that have the men with big things out of proportion. Perhaps it shows that women have better control of what sex is and maybe are more mature than us and hence don't need these games???????

You then take on Sabin_Stargem by pointing out a male magazine for women that failed. Once again, is it that women simply didn't need that kind of stuff unlike men who need it. I don't think they have truly asked women why they are less likely to buy a magazine for their taste compared to men or why they wouldn't buy games. I don't want to go any further on this to avoid this becoming a porn only discussion, which the intention was not discussing porn but games that are almost 100% for guys and just don't fit in a gaming website of any dignity or quality of titles for sale and of course no way for those of us who simply don't want to see those titles to filter them out before we see them.


To say Hentai games can't be developed as well as they are being repressed is like saying some of the biggest flops on PC gaming were repressed and that is why the game never totally worked (Daikatana - spelling). I don't see anyone saying to repress them, if they are then I would think the titles wouldn't even get to market. The quality is that they focus on the female assets and maybe overdue it, but once again you are trying to say these games get an unfair shake, I would agree but not to the extent that Sabin-Stargem is trying to show them as being so hunted down, banned, regulated, arrested, prudish culture saying right or wrong. So I am glad you like those games. However defending their reason to be open for sale in sites where people are more looking for gaming rather than adult themed and designed games and are easy to create and fill up a gaming store catalog is a losing arguement. I also think Sabin, you see these companies are not being allowed their creative opportunities, my gosh look at how many of these titles are out there, I think that negates the creative opportunities. You don't see porn movies in Netflix but the porn movie industry I assume is doing just fine without being in netflix for rent. I did a search on Amazon for "porn movies", I don't know if they are or aren't because I don't buy those movies but it appears amazon carries 555 items. I even, went to an adult oriented dvd site, it has 50,000 titles, I don't see them being repressed not to express themselves. So you are trying to use every excuse to defend them being on gog or steam. They had adult games for the Atari 2600 that were limited by the hardware of the time. The hentai games appear to be of high quality anime design and so quality can't be a basis for defense either.

Now I am referring to gaming in general. We haven't had the issue of adult games being up for sale at Best Buy, Babbages, Electronic Boutique, Target, and so on in the past. Online distribution has made it possible along with tools to design games more easily. I still feel yes titles should be whatever they want to be but, and yes, but, titles we don't normally associate with gaming in general hentai, sex based only games. So I am talking about games from running a farm to turning bad guys into giblets on the screen or seeing someone's arm shot off in the game. While some will question these as games or worthy of sale and promotion, adult content is a totally different story. It is in its own category for a reason as it has a defined age required and is not so much a game as a fantasy about things that gamers aren't so worried about since in almost all games where you can play a female character you are allowed creative freedom to have large assets for your female character but not ones that exceed well you know. So I have no issue with sales of games even those I don't like, but adult games, if you can call them that, are a whole different category just as if they were movies.

If they do sell them I have no control. However they should provide filters so those of us not looking for those titles can find the games we are looking for. I gave up trying to keep up with steam games with the ignore or follow or add to wish list as every anime game that came up I had to see was it like Final Fantasy or Hentai disguised under a normal sounding title. I feel a company who sells games needs to decide what they feel is proper for their image. I remember when 7-11 in the USA use to sell adult magazines and there was a big uproar when 7-11 announced they no longer wanted to be associated with the sale of these magazines as that wasn't their corporate image they wanted. You can still buy a guns and ammo magazine I guess but no playboy (of course there is no printed version as far as I remember but maybe there is I don't recall) at a 7-11 (actually do they still sell magazines) so its both the taste of the consumers and the corporate image.

Problems posting remaining responses, will try again later

I know I seem to really spent more post here than ever in my total time doing business with GOG. I guess I finally couldn't stay quiet any longer after the Steam Xmas Sale in which in my list of titles I had to go through to get 1 trading card for their event, I encountered at least 2-3 hentai based games that just made me tired of not being able to filter them out as the filters can filter out titles like The Witcher.

Then after the GOG holiday sale, as I look at their good deals on sale and saw the adult game, I looked to see what the heck it was and once I saw 1 or 2 screenshots, that is when I finally got sick of seeing these on gaming sites and decided to really open up a debate and discussion.

And why would you be able to filter those? That's exactly what I've said many comments ago - there is no real objective criteria that you can offer to separate games with sex and nudity that you like (like Witcher) and don't (like Being a DIK).

So you are just a troll then?

Let's not forget those minigames are optional during the first game. I know the whole concept and execution are underwhelming, immature and I'm glad CDPR moved on from that approach.
Have you ever noticed how people criticising The Witcher bring up the sex cards, but rarely (if ever) drinking, gambling and fistfighting? All of them are facts of life, whether we like it or not, and seeing them in a game is not that strange to begin with. My guess is some critics weren't necessarily taken aback by the presence of sex, but by the implementation itself.
While nudity isn't optional in The Witcher series, engaging in romance is - it is entirely up to the player to choose their actions. The game will never force you to, say, require services at Passiflora or have sex with Ves.

On what do you base your statement that one of the selling points is sex? Is there a statistic to show exactly that or is it just a guess? As I understand it, many people bought the games (and especially the third one) for their rich, quality stories, world design & atmosphere, well-developed, fleshed-out characters, structure, value for money, combat (although I never found this to be a particularly strong point), etc.
Is there sex? Yes. Does Geralt have an over developed libido? Yes, he's a witcher after all, that shouldn't surprise anyone.
Sex in these series will not take over the narrative. Consider also that none of them made it to ESRB's AO list, despite nudity and sexual content. Whereas something like Magna Cum Laude did.
Plenty of games have romance/sex, but they're not engulfed by it. As an exercise, try and ask people why they play Assassin's Creed, Dragon Age, GTA or even The Last of Us.

At the end of the day, games (of whatever kind) are supposed to be fun. As long as the player has a healthy mind and can tell reality and simulation apart, there shouldn't be any issues. There will always be advocates on both sides, this debate will be never-ending. To you and those interested, you can check out an example: Philip Zimbardo vs. Andrew Przybylski.

No. You are the first person I've seen, who criticizes the sex cards in The Witcher. I think they are a cool addition to the game and (at least some of them) hold artistic value.

In fact, I brought up the first Witcher as an example, because in Witcher 2 and Cyberpunk 2077 sex scenes are rather sub-par and I don't think anyone would really enjoy them as porn. I would definitely prefer cards in Witcher 2 instead of basically one sex scene that just swaps the female character model.

I base my statement on the games' trailers and other advertising. They all mention mature themes and sex specifically as one of them. It was literally one of the selling points, for both Witcher and Cyberpunk games.

And? My very point is that ESRB (as well as other censorship organizations) has vague and inconsistent guidelines. And the very fact that TLOU2 was allowed an uncensored sex scene simply because it pushed the right (or should I say left?) kind of ideology proves my point.

Then why are you arguing with me? If people have fun by jerking off to their favorite character, why is that wrong? How can you know if they don't do that in Witcher or other games where "sex doesn't take over the narrative"? How can you know that games that DO have narratives revolving around sex don't present players anything of value in terms of gameplay or story?

I can assure you I'm not the only one. If you don't believe me, look it up yourself - there are plenty of comments, reviews, articles addressing this. And while there might be some kind of artistic value to the cards themselves, I did not enjoy the implementation of the whole concept. We hold different opinions here and there's nothing wrong with that.
I haven't played Cyberpunk, so I can't pronounce on what happened there. What I can talk about is The Witcher series and I doubt the devs intended the scenes as such.



Out of curiosity, I had a look at some trailers for Witcher 2:
- posted on IGN's channel 10 years ago (mostly about conflicts and regicids, visuals, combat - a cut from the Elven Bath ruins takes less than 10 seconds),
- X360 enhanced edition on BANDAI NAMCO's channel (the intro scene as seen in the game),
- Launch Trailer on GameSpot (ESRB's M rating at the beginning, conflict for the most part again and less than 5 seconds inside the Elven Bath ruins)
- Official Launch Trailer on IGN's channel (conflict again, less than 3 seconds with Triss)
We've no way of saying for sure what made X person from Y place to purchase the game. In my opinion, the major and the most consistent theme throughout the trailers is conflict (in various forms).


Had the ESRB been inconsistent and easy to convince, they would've accepted San Andreas as it was. Instead, they listed the game as AO until Rockstar made changes. On the same note, the BBFC would've accepted Manhunt 2, but they chose to ban it outright. I'm sure you're aware of what's happening in other countries as well (see Australia or Germany). Can their views be influenced by certain actors? There is a possibility of that.

You should ask them, not me - in particular what motivates them to engage in such acts. Behind most actions you will usually find triggers and reasons.

I never implied that in my previous post. In order not to jump to conclusions, you either play or study them to have a better understanding. Since it has been brought up lately, I took some time to read about Being A DIK. Having a look at the reviews, I noticed someone who called those vocal against sexual themes hypocrites - I find this to be a rigid viewpoint. The fact of the matter is most people do not care about what others do in the privacy of their home. Most problems arise when behaviours that do not adhere to the societal norms are brought into the public space and promoted. It might be shocking for some, but what works in a certain place, won't in another.

And I, out of curiosity looked at the Witcher 2 GOG page. There is some nudity in the trailer. Plus "Triss Playboy Session" in the extra materials.

Sure, the nudity moments in the trailer are short and you may argue that this selling point is not important. But still, the point does exist.

You talk nonsense. I never said that they were "easy to convince". In fact, it's exactly their stubbornness in some issues and lack of concern in others - that's what inconsistency is.

Excuse me? You are the one, who says that such behavior is wrong and "doesn't adhere to social norms". So that's why I'm asking you why do you think it's wrong and doesn't adhere to social norms, not someone else.

What behavior are you talking about? If you are talking about jerking off - how is it against social norms? And how exactly "Being a DIK" promotes it?

Ok, boomer

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You seem to be ignoring or forgetting two things: Quality is subjective, and also some people like "shovelware quality" media.

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That's a (likely) troll, bruh...just thought you should know *collapses like Professor Quirrell*