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Warhammer 40,000: Battlesector is now available on GOG.COM!

Experience every bone-rattling explosion and soul-crushing charge in the definitive battle-scale game of turn-based strategy and fast-paced combat that takes you to the battlefields of the 41st Millenium.

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They really keep coming out with the Warhammer games don't they? Fair play!
Post edited July 25, 2021 by pferreira1983
How exactly do you guys expect this review-bombing campaign to end? What's the objective here? You think because a single indie game that's getting glowing reviews on steam but getting shafted on a niche market like GOG for a practice that's been industry-standard for years there are going to be ripples of panic through the games development industry?

You think they're all going to abandon the convenience of collecting (optional) telemetry data over randos giving angry incoherent bug reports?

Or do you think yet another developer is going to decide GOG isn't worth the headache anymore and abandon the platform? Soon GOG will just be a store for teen romance visual novels, what a consumer-friendly paradise!

It's like that one weirdo spamming game release threads here talking about his boycott of one. "Uh, oh, billion-dollar corporation CD Projekt Red, you're out $115 from my personal boycott so far!"

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MischiefMaker: Worth noting: 4/5 verified owner average, 2/5 with the review-bombers who never even tried the game.
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edorien: Thats only because once you refund a game, you no longer count as a verified owner, for the purposes of that score.
Or instead you could, you know, just click the opt-out box and stop ruining things for actual customers like me who don't want their game abandoned on GOG. It's happened before.
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MischiefMaker: Or instead you could, you know, just click the opt-out box and stop ruining things for actual customers like me who don't want their game abandoned on GOG. It's happened before.
You miss the point. This is DRM-free and curated site. If a game or developer doesn't meet these qualities then they aren't welcome on this platform. They either fix the issues or don't come here at all. Anyone who wants to buy their manure can go to Steam.

If you think that it's harmful for Gog then you are wrong. Only reason Gog is still alive is because of their principles. Once they lose those there is nothing distinguishing them from Steam and if that happens, that's when their remaining customers will move away. Because there's no point buying Steam keys from third party sites if you have to activate them on Steam anyway. + Steam most probably gives better discounts as well.

The solution is not just to do things differently but better than the competition. Doing things DRM free and respecting user privacy deffinitely is better.
Post edited July 25, 2021 by ConanTheBald
No, you miss the point.

If you want to end the practice of game developers taking telemetry data from games, review-bombing isolated indie games are the wrong tactics. It's all downsides and no upsides.

And if hosting DRM-free games that collect telemetry data would signal the doom of GOG... buddy they've got hundreds of games already that do just that, and they've been hosting them for years.
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MischiefMaker: No, you miss the point.

If you want to end the practice of game developers taking telemetry data from games, review-bombing isolated indie games are the wrong tactics. It's all downsides and no upsides.

And if hosting DRM-free games that collect telemetry data would signal the doom of GOG... buddy they've got hundreds of games already that do just that, and they've been hosting them for years.
I'm not your buddy. Consumers don't just have the right to express their dissatisfaction. It's our obligation.
Agile developers rely heavily on user feedback. Your fanboy mentality only slows down the progress.
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ConanTheBald: I'm not your buddy. Consumers don't just have the right to express their dissatisfaction. It's our obligation.
Agile developers rely heavily on user feedback. Your fanboy mentality only slows down the progress.
Che Guevara over here!

Okay dude, you go fight that revolution by angrily posting 1-star reviews of games you've never played.
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edorien: Thats only because once you refund a game, you no longer count as a verified owner, for the purposes of that score.
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MischiefMaker: Or instead you could, you know, just click the opt-out box and stop ruining things for actual customers like me who don't want their game abandoned on GOG. It's happened before.
Opt out on an external website doesn't stop the data being sent, it only stops it being stored at their end.
A third party can easily intercept that data in between, (especially with an open api like unity)
Over multiple games, Location and activity data, can be used to build up the daily routine of a target,

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MischiefMaker: And if hosting DRM-free games that collect telemetry data would signal the doom of GOG... buddy they've got hundreds of games already that do just that, and they've been hosting them for years.
And for those hundreds of games (e.g. cyberpunk, original sin2) most place the opt out witihin the software, so don't even attempt to send the data, unless the user expressly allows it. This is different to what is happening here.
Post edited July 25, 2021 by edorien
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ConanTheBald: You miss the point. This is DRM-free and curated site. If a game or developer doesn't meet these qualities then they aren't welcome on this platform. They either fix the issues or don't come here at all. Anyone who wants to buy their manure can go to Steam.

If you think that it's harmful for Gog then you are wrong. Only reason Gog is still alive is because of their principles. Once they lose those there is nothing distinguishing them from Steam and if that happens, that's when their remaining customers will move away. Because there's no point buying Steam keys from third party sites if you have to activate them on Steam anyway. + Steam most probably gives better discounts as well.

The solution is not just to do things differently but better than the competition. Doing things DRM free and respecting user privacy deffinitely is better.
Precisely. It has never (as far as I am aware) been GOG's mission to get as many games on their store as possible. Their stated mission has been to get as many games as possible that are DRM-free and meet certain quality criteria. They have built their reputation based on opposing and pushing back against nefarious industry standards. If they had just gone with the flow and done what everybody else did, they never would have been successful in the first place.

The way I see it, these negative reviews are very useful, because they inform consumers and allow them to make an informed purchase. Potential buyers deserve to be made aware if a game they are interested in contains telemetry and there is nothing on the GOG store page that is open and transparent about that. It is obvious from the reviews and from the difference between the 'overall' and 'verified owner' ratings that the reason is people warning about telemetry. If those buyers don't care about the telemetry, then they can go ahead and buy it anyway (based on the VO reviews). For those that wouldn't buy the game if they know it contains telemetry, the 'review bombs' are providing a very helpful service.

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MischiefMaker: Okay dude, you go fight that revolution by angrily posting 1-star reviews of games you've never played.
I see a fundamental inconsistency in your position: either the negative reviews are inconsequential or they are not. You seem to simultaneously be claiming that these 1-star reviews are inconsequential and won't achieve anything, but you have also voiced concerns that they will damage the sales of the game and hurt a small, upcoming developer.

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. If the reviews are inconsequential, then they are nothing to worry about and you can safely ignore them in the knowledge that they won't have any effect. If they are not inconsequential and may affect the games' sales, then I would argue they are a valid form of protest and may achieve their goal of influencing the developer and pushing for positive change. If they might negatively affect the sales, then surely the developer would be wise to take the concerns on-board and make changes?

In other words, I think your arguments fail either way.

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MischiefMaker: And if hosting DRM-free games that collect telemetry data would signal the doom of GOG... buddy they've got hundreds of games already that do just that, and they've been hosting them for years.
I agree that we need to figure out what is going on with those other games and whether they are surreptitiously sending telemetry or not. By the way, this protest is not isolated, there was similar review bombing for Kerbal Space Program (which I believe is another Unity game).
Post edited July 25, 2021 by Time4Tea
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Time4Tea: Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. If the reviews are inconsequential, then they are nothing to worry about and you can safely ignore them in the knowledge that they won't have any effect. If they are not inconsequential and may affect the games' sales, then I would argue they are a valid form of protest and may achieve their goal of influencing the developer and pushing for positive change. If they might negatively affect the sales, then surely the developer would be wise to take the concerns on-board and make changes?
Yes I can have it both ways.

A small developer may decide that it's not worth the extra man-hours to create a separate patch and installer for GOG customers when you never know what random button in the options menu is gonna trigger these loons to start a review-bombing campaign.

AND the business decisions of one isolated indie developer regarding a niche marketplace won't change industry-wide telemetry practices that have been standard for years now.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

There is no reason to single-out this one game for an industry-standard practice, and this pile-on won't change the industry standard. The only people it can have an effect on are paying customers like me who get late updates and missing DLC because GOG's more trouble than it's worth.
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MischiefMaker: A small developer may decide that it's not worth the extra man-hours to create a separate patch and installer for GOG customers when you never know what random button in the options menu is gonna trigger these loons to start a review-bombing campaign.
I would expect changing the way the telemetry works from 'opt-out' to 'opt-in' would be a very simple programmatic change to make. It's literally just a change to the default behavior of a function that already exists.

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MischiefMaker: AND the business decisions of one isolated indie developer regarding a niche marketplace won't change industry-wide telemetry practices that have been standard for years now.
Fighting back against DRM happens one game/publisher at a time, which is exactly the way the GOG store was built. Pushing back against telemetry and other anti-consumer practices is no different. One game, one developer who's mind can be changed is a step in the right direction and is a worthwhile result. I don't agree with you that pushing for Slitherine to change their game would be inconsequential.

As I've said before, an anti-consumer feature being 'industry standard' is no excuse. In that case, all the more reason that we need to push back against that industry standard, the same way we have been pushing back for years against DRM.

Plus, as I also mentioned before, the 'review bombs' in themselves serve a useful purpose of informing consumers, regardless of whether or not they will result in this developer making changes.

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MischiefMaker: There is no reason to single-out this one game for an industry-standard practice, and this pile-on won't change the industry standard. The only people it can have an effect on are paying customers like me who get late updates and missing DLC because GOG's more trouble than it's worth.
As I said with the example I gave previously of KSP, there is a precedent for this and Battlesector is not being singled-out. I completely agree with you that this game should not be singled out in an unfair way - we need to look into other Unity games that are on GOG and determine to what extent they are spying on users. I will be much more wary myself of other games that use Unity from now on.
Post edited July 26, 2021 by Time4Tea