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adaliabooks: I'm generally on the side of pre orders are stupid and pre order exclusives particularly annoying, but this is genuinely a good deal from Gog and I don't see what all the hate is about...
Exactly.

On the topic of preorders: this

That said, if someone wants to preorder then there is no reason why they shouldn't have that option.
They days you could blindly trust GOG are long gone.
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Alaric.us: Uh.. yea... let's pass lots more laws that ban other people from doing stuff we ourselves don't want to do. There can't possibly be anything wrong with that idea.
The point isn't to ban something for the reason that others are doing stuff we ourselves don't want to do, as that statement implies.

Rather, the point is to ban something because it collectively has a negative impact on society, as do preorders --- because the existence of preorders makes games on the whole worse for everyone, even for people who never preorder.

And no, there can't be anything wrong that idea. That is, in theory at least, the whole reason why laws exist in the first place: to protect society by keeping out of it bad things that should not exist within it.
Post edited July 29, 2017 by Ancient-Red-Dragon
As others mentioned, pre-orders on digital copies is less an attempt to gauge demand ahead of time (in order to ensure that enough stock is available) and more indicative of a lack of faith in the product, such that the developer or publisher is dependent on getting as many sales as possible before the reviews start rolling in.

Personally, I don't have an issue with the concept of pre-orders existing. If people wish to waste their money, who am I to stop them? I very rarely pre-order, and when I do, it's always on physical versions of games with low print runs. I'm selective about what I pre-order, so of them, my only regret has been on Micro Machines: World Series, because that was a huge fucking let down, but thankfully I managed to send it back to Amazon before I unwrapped it, and you can be sure as shit I won't be pre-ordering Codemasters games again.

It starts getting ethically reprehensible when publishers start issuing exclusive pre-order content. That for me is the ultimate red flag that the publisher has very little faith in the quality in the product.

Are GOG's pre-orders done right? Hardly. A free game that is worth very little in real terms (except Furi) and for which Steam keys are being bandied around like candy is hardly a compelling proposition. But ultimately, the proposition is a harmless one. It doesn't unnecessarily penalise customers who choose to exercise caution.

If GOG really wanted to do pre-orders right, they'd provide a legal guarantee that the product being advertised is the product that they are getting - including screenshots and video footage.
Post edited July 29, 2017 by _ChaosFox_
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Alaric.us: Uh.. yea... let's pass lots more laws that ban other people from doing stuff we ourselves don't want to do. There can't possibly be anything wrong with that idea.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: The point isn't to ban something for the reason that others are doing stuff we ourselves don't want to do, as that statement implies.

Rather, the point is to ban something because it collectively has a negative impact on society, as do preorders --- because the existence of preorders makes games on the whole worse for everyone, even for people who never preorder.

And no, there can't be anything wrong that idea. That is, in theory at least, the whole reason why laws exist in the first place: to protect society by keeping out of it bad things that should not exist within it.
There is everything wrong with that idea. You seek to eliminate the symptoms of a disease, rather than treat the disease itself, which would allow the disease to worsen, and eventually become terminal.

Treating symptoms is charlatanism; treating disease and teaching people how to have and maintain good health is medicine.
Post edited July 29, 2017 by richlind33
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Alaric.us: Uh.. yea... let's pass lots more laws that ban other people from doing stuff we ourselves don't want to do. There can't possibly be anything wrong with that idea.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: The point isn't to ban something for the reason that others are doing stuff we ourselves don't want to do, as that statement implies.

Rather, the point is to ban something because it collectively has a negative impact on society, as do preorders --- because the existence of preorders makes games on the whole worse for everyone, even for people who never preorder.

And no, there can't be anything wrong that idea. That is, in theory at least, the whole reason why laws exist in the first place: to protect society by keeping out of it bad things that should not exist within it.
Humans, Mr. Nanny, must be allowed to make mistakes. Society might get a slight immediate benefit if you outlaw mistakes, but overall the consequences of suppressing free will are disastrous. And if you are comparing dire harm to others, which does need to be outlawed (such as murder) to highly debatable harm such as preorders, you are clearly either trolling or engaging in a perfectly fallacious and therefore invalid argument.

And as much as I think preorders are stupid, there has been an instance when I preordered a game and was happy with both the game itself and the preorder bonuses. So a blanket ban on all preorders is nothing short of utterly ludicrous.

As a person who almost never preorders, I am content with suffering worse games overall (though this is VERY much debatable) so that my fellow citizens have the freedom to preorder if they so desire. Even if I feel they are wrong and stupid.
Post edited July 29, 2017 by Alaric.us
"Only on GOG: Pre-orders Done Right"

No mention whatsoever of one of the pre-order bonuses for Tomb Raider 2013 -- a copy of Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light that was "available to play right away".

That pre-order bonus was offered by Wal-Mart.

This is not new. This isn't even only on GOG. Offering copies of previously released games as pre-order bonuses for upcoming games goes back years. Who the hell even approved this marketing move?
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MegaManTrigger: "Only on GOG: Pre-orders Done Right"

No mention whatsoever of one of the pre-order bonuses for Tomb Raider 2013 -- a copy of Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light that was "available to play right away".

That pre-order bonus was offered by Wal-Mart.

This is not new. This isn't even only on GOG. Offering copies of previously released games as pre-order bonuses for upcoming games goes back years. Who the hell even approved this marketing move?
Now you mention it South Park: The Fractured But Whole does come with The Stick of Truth as a pre-order bonus. I must admit I'm quite sceptical when it comes to giving other games as pre-order bonuses. What if you decide to cancel the pre-order? Can you even cancel it? Because on gog.com where games are DRM free that basically means you get a free game? They could say that you have received part of the product so cancelling is no longer an option. I haven't seen this adressed. How are gog.com going to handle cancelling a pre-order with this system?
Post edited July 29, 2017 by KajQrd
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KajQrd: How are gog.com going to handle cancelling a pre-order with this system?
My guess would be the same way they handle pre-orders that give soundtracks. No idea what that way is, but it should already be established.
Things I don't do:

1. Pre-order games
2. Buy brand new cars
3. Buy single beers (as opposed to cartons or six packs)
4. Buy a cup of tea at a cafe.

Yet I don't feel the need to make a post about how those things shouldn't be offered for sale.

A business offering something you don't want to buy and don't think others should buy. What a strange thing to complain about.
high rated
The various post defending pre-order made me research logical fallacies. I noticed Ergo Decedo, which doesn't really sound fitting, but the examples provided by Wikipedia follows pretty much the same reasoning as in some of the posts:
Critic: "I think we need to work on improving United States' taxation system. The current system suffers from multiple issues that have been resolved in other places such as Canada and Europe."
Respondent: "Well, if you don't like it, why don't you just leave and go somewhere you think is better?"
TVtropes has an article which seems fitting: Don't Like, Don't Read

Some more stuff I found:
6 Reasons Why the "Don't Like, Don't Watch" Argument is Hilariously Idiotic (youtube)
Fallacy: "If you don't like Apple, don't buy" - Fallacy of escaping the walled-garden
‘If You Don’t Like It, Make Your Own’ Is a Terrible Argument, But A Great Idea
The only issues I see with pre-orders is putting your money on a product that will ship later and the possibility that the bonuses weren't worth it. Otherwise, I noticed that not all games with pre-orders had terrible reviews or great ratings consistently. I may be wrong about that, but I don't think pre-orders really play a major role in the quality of the end product.

But it does depend on the faith you put in the developer of the game, and that you may end up with a dud. The possibility of a dud and your faith in the developer is something that should be up to you.

Pre-orders with extra games is something in the right direction, as long as the games themselves are not bound to the pre-order and will be sold afterwards (or is being sold). A better incentive than a hat or an expansion that anyone could miss by being rightfully cautious.
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KasperHviid: The various post defending pre-order made me research logical fallacies. I noticed Ergo Decedo, which doesn't really sound fitting, but the examples provided by Wikipedia follows pretty much the same reasoning as in some of the posts:

Critic: "I think we need to work on improving United States' taxation system. The current system suffers from multiple issues that have been resolved in other places such as Canada and Europe."
Respondent: "Well, if you don't like it, why don't you just leave and go somewhere you think is better?"
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KasperHviid: TVtropes has an article which seems fitting: Don't Like, Don't Read

Some more stuff I found:
6 Reasons Why the "Don't Like, Don't Watch" Argument is Hilariously Idiotic (youtube)
Fallacy: "If you don't like Apple, don't buy" - Fallacy of escaping the walled-garden
‘If You Don’t Like It, Make Your Own’ Is a Terrible Argument, But A Great Idea
How about this one...

"If you don't like having your judgement called into question, don't be an asshat." lol
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richlind33: "If you don't like having your judgement called into question, don't be an asshat." lol
Which judgement are you referring to? The OP's judgement? Or some posters judging his judgment? Or me judging their judgement? Yikes ... this one could pretty much hit anyone in the face.
Post edited July 30, 2017 by KasperHviid
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richlind33: "If you don't like having your judgement called into question, don't be an asshat." lol
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KasperHviid: Which judgement are you referring to? The OP's judgement? Or some posters judging his judgment? Or me judging their judgement? Yikes ... this one could pretty much hit anyone in the face.
Anyone who uses the "if you don't like it, don't do it" "argument", because what you're saying is "I don't want to talk about it" -- to which I like to reply: "well, if you don't want to talk about it, then don't talk about it." o.O
Post edited July 30, 2017 by richlind33