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JMich: A check is done every time you want to use GOG features. Have you tried asking for support for a game you don't own? Support is a GOG feature, not a game one, and it does depend on you owning the game.
I didn’t know about this. I never used GOG support for games, because I’m not using a supported OS.
Still it is okay with me because it is not part of my gaming experience but only of my buying experience.

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JMich: The check is done when you are going to use Galaxy features. You can launch the games without any kind of checks, if you want to use Galaxy features (like time played) then you need to own the game. Game execution isn't dependent on ownership of it.
This means I would be okay with launching my game through Galaxy, but not with using any Galaxy-specific features. But in that case Galaxy would be worthless to me, so I simply won’t use it.

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JMich: You do realize that the games themselves remain DRM-free, but Galaxy and GOG features are not, and they never were, right? Yet GOG is seen as OK, while Galaxy isn't.
That’s right.
I’m okay with GOG using some form of control because it is a store, from where I do nothing but buy games. I’m not okay with Galaxy using the same kind of control because it is part of my gaming experience.

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JMich: Just to see if I understand you, is Steam DRM? And can a Steam game be DRM-Free? I'm looking for your personal opinion.
/!\ Personal opinions worded as facts follow. They’re still nothing but subjective takes.

The Steam client is DRM (some control during my gaming experience). The Steam store is not (some control during my buying experience).

A Steam game would be DRM-free if:
_I can download it without using a single mandatory software. A control that I bought the game in the form of a login or some code to copy-paste from my account/receipt before allowing the download to begin would be okay.
_I can install/update/play it without any form of control (Steam client included). Downloading updates could still be subjected to some form of control like the initial game download without disturbing me, but not to a mandatory software.
_I can still install/play it at any time without restriction even if I close my Steam account.
_All of this needs to be supported features, not hacks. Installing the game through the Steam client then copying the data elsewhere to have an offline backup *is* a hack.
Post edited July 15, 2015 by vv221
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vv221: I didn’t know about this. I never used GOG support for games, because I’m not using a supported OS.
Still it is okay with me because it is not part of my gaming experience but only of my buying experience.
GOG Features require proof of ownership. You are ok with this.

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vv221: This means I would be okay with launching my game through Galaxy, but not with using any Galaxy-specific features. But in that case Galaxy would be worthless to me, so I simply won’t use it.
Galaxy Features require proof of ownership. You are not ok with this.

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vv221: I’m not okay with Galaxy using the same kind of control because it is part of my gaming experience.
Galaxy is part of your gaming experience the same way Hamachi is. Optional, and you may wish to use it, but not part of the gaming experience itself.

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vv221: /!\ Personal opinions worded as facts follow. They’re still nothing but subjective takes.
Thank you. Won't go over them, as I have done so in the past with others. Skip Galaxy. You'll consider it DRM, even though it's not.

Edit: Do ask if you want more in depth explanation, or look at the thread about DRM Free games on Steam.
Post edited July 15, 2015 by JMich
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JMich: GOG Features require proof of ownership. You are ok with this.
(…)
Galaxy Features require proof of ownership. You are not ok with this.
One is part of my buying experience, the other one part of my gaming experience. I’m okay with controls in the former, not in the later.
I think it sum up my opinion as well as it can be.

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vv221: /!\ Personal opinions worded as facts follow. They’re still nothing but subjective takes.
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JMich: Thank you. Won't go over them, as I have done so in the past with others. Skip Galaxy. You'll consider it DRM, even though it's not.
Thanks for accepting them as-is even if you disagree with them.
That’s a rare behaviour on the Internet ;)
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hedwards: Right, but either way the games can be bought other places than GOG. And even when they do add support for the older games, there will still be other sources of those games.

Or am I missing something here?

Regardless of any of that, they can't really stop people from doing it other than by taking the game back as that would require DRM. I suppose they could withhold updates and require a current version in order to connect, but I'm not sure the community would accept that.
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Pheace: Adding support for older games would most likely require a redevelopment of their multiplayer which requires dev involvement, it's not likely to happen except in maybe rare cases.

Steam is the only other place where you'd have a GOG Galaxy matchmaking game, and I do wonder whether those can instead be run through GOG Galaxy or have to run through Steam (which then restricts them so that makes those not relevant).

Also as said above, it's quite possible that GOG Galaxy matchmaking would use your profile as a unique identifier to log into multiplayer. You do have to be logged into the client and your account after all. Then it would be a basic check. Does he own the game, then he can connect to Multiplayer. Does he not? Then he can not.

That doesn't require any DRM inside the game whatsoever, but can still be used to disallow multiplayer access.

Ok, ignoring the above for a second , how do you see multiplayer working where every pirate/cheater can simply freely participate? Because that's what multiplayer without restrictions is going to be. Not only will it stress/strain any servers (assuming there's dedicated ones) but it is very likely to seriously lower the quality of online gameplay, and a lot of that from people who never paid for the game.
That's all definitely reasonable speculation and I've got a feeling there's a lot of truth to the latter part in particular. Some people are single-player only gamers, others multiplayer-only, and then there are those that are an even split down the middle, and those who do both but favour one more than the other overall. I fit into the category of liking both single and multiplayer games but if I had to choose one over the other I'd choose single-player because that's where I spend most of my time.

Why? Primarily because I can game anytime I want and play anything I want without the Internet and some game's servers to be online and functioning properly, and without relying on other people to be present for me to be entertained. I see it as the lowest common denominator that guarantees on any given night that I can be adequately entertained. I look then at multiplayer as being more of the icing on the cake, with some games that have a potentially fun multiplayer anyway. But that's when it starts to break down a bit for me too. I've been multiplayer gaming ever since the first networked multiplayer games appeared - using the term "networked" loosely to mean multiple computers playing a game through some form of interconnection, so that includes Internet, dialup modem, null modem and PLIP.

In the early days there were no online communities, they didn't exist yet and there was no central multiplayer motherbrain. If you wanted to play multiplayer you called a friend on the phone and arranged a 8 hour long LAN party, then spent 6 or 7 of those hours getting everyone to install Windows updates, remove viruses, update their video drivers, reconfigure the OS for hours trying to get the computers to see each other on Network Neighbourhood, and all the other fun stuff. Then you got to play your 1-2 hours of game until the next weekend when you did it all again. Ah, the good old days! But we gamed between friends and friends of friends via invite-only. There were vocalized rules as well as unwritten rules that everyone just understood implicitly like "don't spit on people in public while walking down the street". If someone had a friend they thought could be a part of it and grasp the unwritten rules and be a team player and contribute to the greater enjoyment of the game for everyone then they might get an invite. There were zero random outsiders doing whatever they pleased with complete abandon for any kind of etiquette or rules, such people were just never invited to our closed private sessions in LAN party form, nor online when we started doing everything over the Internet more and more.

Then, we opened up our game servers for public use with Half-life and some other games. When we were in "clan gaming" mode so to speak we would boot everyone out and it was just for trusted members. When we weren't actively gaming like that we would open the servers to whoever, but ban anyone who was noticeably being anti-social or otherwise causing problems or hostility. Overall it worked out ok but the problematic people would sure get under your skin sometimes.

Then a transition occurred where more and more games got rid of direct-IP TCP/IP gaming and more and more got rid of broadcast LAN play options as well, moving more and more towards centralized gaming hub centers. There were pros and cons to this approach, but it was sad that many games made this the only option available when there were no technical reasons why LAN play could not exist. Now multiplayer gaming became more of a free-for-all in the unwashed masses with any random jerk to wreak havoc on other people's games unless they were password protected. Then came the multi-player cheaters which seem to permeate every single game ever made with impunity, and also seem to be able to easily defeat any and all online anti-cheat mechanisms with a click of the mouse.

That is not fun. Not to me.

So I generally avoid the disorganized chaos of online multiplayer gaming with random people I don't know all around the world because the majority of the time when I try it out it is clear someone is using an aim-bot or other cheating mechanisms and that is just totally not enjoyable in any way to me - I'd rather play single-player. I do not cheat in games nor ever want to cheat. Even if I played and lost every game every night with players who were just plain good with no hacks or cheats, I'd rather do that than play with cheaters.

Some cheaters get banned and just make a new Steam account or whatever and come right back. It might cost them $5 or whatever to do it but they don't care, they do it anyway. But - the fact they have to jump through a few hoops and it will cost them a bit of money to have to buy the game again or whatever else means there is a natural throttle on how many of them there are out there - and there are a lot already.

Ideologically, I want open multiplayer game servers/technology that does not require unique keys/licenses to play because all of that shit is a hassle, but the truth is that if anyone can join a central public multiplayer game server from any computer anytime with no restrictions whatsoever, no proof of purchase needed, no license etc. then there is effectively no way to ban cheaters and the problem as it is becomes 100-fold.

So I don't particularly have a big problem with game companies making official multiplayer game servers that require a license key to be a part of, and will ban cheaters or rule breakers - I support that. What I have a problem with, is game companies making that the ONLY multiplayer option and disallowing LAN play modes or direct-IP modes. This is particularly problematic when the game company stops supporting the game and their servers go offline permanently and multiplayer is effectively dead, or if the 3rd party service (ie: Gamespy) goes defunct and the same thing happens. Gamers are left with no other options except for using VPNs with cracks that contain malware (likely) and similar. That is not very consumer friendly.

I'd like to see every game have a direct-IP/hostname way of connecting to peers as well as LAN play modes just like games always used to have, which guarantees you can play the game forever with your friends etc. Also nice if they provide the option to run a dedicated server which acts like your own hub in the game universe, that's great for clan matches. I miss these aspects of multiplayer, that's when multiplayer was always fun.

The problem is that mandatory authentication is considered DRM and DRM considered restrictive and evil, but it helps to cut down on the chaff, and if everything is a wide open free-for-all, there are no restrictions at all on abuse which makes a game's multiplayer non-existent for any serious gamers that want to play a fun game devoid of idiots.

So I'm a fan of providing multiple solutions and letting the customer decide.
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Crosmando: Galaxy does actually feel more lite-weight and simple to me.
Are you sure about that? If you mean the interface, then I suppose; but the actual RAM required to run it (On OS X Yosemite at least) isn't to sneeze at.
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Crosmando: Galaxy does actually feel more lite-weight and simple to me.
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TodaysLoneWolf: Are you sure about that? If you mean the interface, then I suppose; but the actual RAM required to run it (On OS X Yosemite at least) isn't to sneeze at.
ive checked latest chrome on osx (client uses it to display web pages), loaded main page of gog in one tab and myaccount in the other... for me at this point alone it uses even way more RAM (chrome + 4 helper processes using 134MB + 247MB + 62 MB + 85MB + 25MB).

what you are showing is indeed a lot of memory used but it seems that there is generally something wrong either with osx or memory management in chrome / chromium on that platform.
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JMich: They already do a check. I will have to go digging for the screenshot, but it basically says "You don't have this game on GOG yet. Buy it to use Galaxy features", next to the "Play" button, which is active. The sentence is not a quote, but paraphrasing it. Let me go digging for it.

Edit: Found it
A friend logged into GOG and installed one of his games on my computer a while back to both play it while I was making food and house tidying, and to demonstrate the game to me as he knew I was interested in it but hadn't seen it first hand. As far as either of us is aware, that doesn't violate any terms of service. He did not uninstall the game after and I forgot it was even there until I did a Galaxy import and it discovered the game and added it to my game library. On the content launcher page though I got the same screen that you show the screenshot of above.

I think it is important however to note that this is not GOG checking up on people, but rather they have searched for and found a game at the user's request, and due to knowing the full list of games a person's account owns - they're able client-side to determine that the one game is not a game owned by the currently logged in account. That's understandable.

At that point there are a lot of different options for what to do. They could in fact phone home with the information if they desired but I don't believe they do. They could make all kinds of assumptions about why this game is installed on your computer and about the legitimacy of it. But - they could never be 100% certain about that legitimacy because one single person could have many GOG.com accounts for any number of legitimate reasons. They might have had an account and forgot about it or lost the credentials over time, then made a new one. There are many other reasons why one could create multiple legitimate accounts on GOG.com. Also, it's pretty common for multiple people living in the same house to share one or more computers between themselves. It's reasonable to believe that some such households will have multiple people who have their own GOG.com accounts sharing a single computer (whether or not every one of them uses Galaxy at all).

Is it ok to install a GOG.com game on a friend's computer as my friend did? Well, ultimately that depends on the individual license EULA that comes with every game. The strictest of licenses usually states something to the effect that you can install the game only on a single computer and play it at any one time. For the record I tried the game when he installed it, and have never launched the executable since because I planned on buying it now but I have too many other games and priorities at the moment. I left it installed for his use when he visits but have no intention of touching it myself. In this case it is a similar situation to if we were roommates sharing a single computer.

My point of mentioning that scenario though was simply to give an example to others that there are numerous examples of why one might have a GOG game installed on their computer that is both purchased and also legitimate and not violating any terms of a particular game's license agreement - but that GOG Galaxy would not have any access to all of the underlying details of this setup in order to make any kind of reasonable assumptions or draw any conclusions about the legitimacy of the games that are installed.

It would therefore be extremely naive and poor judgment for the software to draw conclusions that a GOG game being found installed on a computer that is not owned by the currently logged in Galaxy account is "pirated" or illegitimate and phone home about it or try to take any "corrective measures" per se. Doing something like that would be very much not in the spirit of GOG or the way they do business which is to offer great products, services and support and trust the customer to do the right thing, and if they were to do that it would incite massive resentment from the customer base and a loss of trust for the company.

So what should the software do if it encounters software it knows is not owned by the account? It should make no assumptions at all about it and only deal with the facts it does know, which is that it is not owned by the account. So it presents the screenshot screen as a friendly way of making it easy for someone to purchase the game if desired without suggesting or even hinting that the installed game is illegitimate because they couldn't possibly know that. It's a subtle and sensible non-intrusive thing to do I believe. They could just not do anything and just grey out the account-related options such as downloading stuff but allow the play button to work, but I don't personally see anything wrong with them putting a subtle hint at the benefits of owning the game on your account either. It's all in the wording and presentation of the message and I find the current approach both professional and non-assuming.

Oddly enough, one thing that isn't an option is to make games that are installed on the system *NOT* appear in Galaxy unless they *ARE* owned by the current account. :) This would allow multiple people to share a computer more easily and optionally have their own private games that don't show up in someone else's account on the same computer. Of course Galaxy does not currently support multiple accounts on one computer (last I checked), so people theoretically would have to download the old fashioned way, but I'm sure they'll add multiple accounts as a feature in the future as it is rather common.

Just some food for thought for the greater thread and not just a response to the message I quoted.
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JMich: They already do a check. I will have to go digging for the screenshot, but it basically says "You don't have this game on GOG yet. Buy it to use Galaxy features", next to the "Play" button, which is active. The sentence is not a quote, but paraphrasing it. Let me go digging for it.
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vv221: Looks like Galaxy is not for me then. Bah, I wasn’t all that much into multiplayer to begin with, so it’s not a big loss.
Still a bit disappointed that I won’t be able to use it to play with some of my friends that use Steam, but as I didn’t have this possibility prior to Galaxy I don’t feel like anything has be taken from me.
You can play with people on Steam, but only for select titles that choose to use Galaxy Multiplayer with crossplay. Aliens Vs. Predator 2000 is one example. Not sure if all of the Galaxy multiplayer games support this or not but it's an option that is available to developers at least.
Post edited July 16, 2015 by skeletonbow
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skeletonbow: Just some food for thought for the greater thread and not just a response to the message I quoted.
Which is basically what they do. They allow you to play the game, even though your account doesn't own it (even if the game isn't on GOG, Mike_Cesara had posted a thread on how to add any game to Galaxy), but the question is if Galaxy specific features are then available. The features we know so far are time tracking, achievements and multiplayer, and it is reasonable to assume that they may not be available if your account doesn't own the game, and it is not against the GOG spirit either, since there are no strings to the game, only to Galaxy.
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JMich: Which is basically what they do. They allow you to play the game, even though your account doesn't own it (even if the game isn't on GOG, Mike_Cesara had posted a thread on how to add any game to Galaxy), but the question is if Galaxy specific features are then available. The features we know so far are time tracking, achievements and multiplayer, and it is reasonable to assume that they may not be available if your account doesn't own the game, and it is not against the GOG spirit either, since there are no strings to the game, only to Galaxy.
I think that line gets muddled somewhat when you take into account that GOG themselves are actively promoting developers to use their multiplayer matchmaking solution (rather than another solution) which will end up locking part of those games behind GOG's legitimacy check. Other than that I agree.
Post edited July 16, 2015 by Pheace
Feature Creep: the thing that happens to your long-term product when you're dumb enough to listen to your customers.
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skeletonbow: Just some food for thought for the greater thread and not just a response to the message I quoted.
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JMich: Which is basically what they do. They allow you to play the game, even though your account doesn't own it (even if the game isn't on GOG, Mike_Cesara had posted a thread on how to add any game to Galaxy), but the question is if Galaxy specific features are then available. The features we know so far are time tracking, achievements and multiplayer, and it is reasonable to assume that they may not be available if your account doesn't own the game, and it is not against the GOG spirit either, since there are no strings to the game, only to Galaxy.
I can agree with that. I would not expect Galaxy features to outright work with other games, but if any such features happen to work with other games it's just a nice bonus. Kind of like how you can add non-Steam games to Steam and it does not track game play time, nor achievements or other API-level stuff (for technically sound reasons), however the Steam overlay works with screenshots, video broadcasting, FPS counter, chat, in-game web browser and several other features.

It would be *cool* if game time tracking worked for any games/apps launched by Galaxy and certainly technically easy to do, and while I'd welcome such a feature I don't expect nor demand it, nor think they should prioritize it.
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dick1982: har har har. that would make sense if GOG Galazy wasn't blatantly trying to look like a steam client.
who gives a ****?. everyone steals ideas from everyone else.
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darthspudius: This fellow is jumping on the Anti-DRM band wagon and that's that.
I agree. Now that Anti-DRM belief is becoming more popular, more and more people are jumping ship.

Where was this guy in the beginning? Probably on the pro-drm payroll.

On a less cynical note, at least his article is showing anti-drm beliefs in a positive light and making it more popular.
Whether feature creeps or not, as long as newest and greatest games are there I'm buying it.

While we're at it, Blizzard just released preorder for Legacy of the Void. Instabuy for quality products. Always on DRM? Dun-care.
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darthspudius: This fellow is jumping on the Anti-DRM band wagon and that's that.
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sasuke12: I agree. Now that Anti-DRM belief is becoming more popular, more and more people are jumping ship.

Where was this guy in the beginning? Probably on the pro-drm payroll.

On a less cynical note, at least his article is showing anti-drm beliefs in a positive light and making it more popular.
Funny thing, I supported this whole fuckin thing from day one. But realistic to know it ain't happening anytime soon and get criticised for it. But this prick pulls this shit and gets praised. Yeah, one big ugly trend! I miss old GoG. :(